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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#109701: Sep 16th 2019 at 2:10:57 PM

I’m expecting Red She Hulk (or Red Harpy, or whatever), at least, to appear in the She-Hulk series, so maybe Ross will make an appearance too.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#109702: Sep 16th 2019 at 2:15:00 PM

> I'm kinda hoping he goes back to his old ways & gets caught doing something horribly illegal this time.

"General Ross caught running through several red lights while uninsured ,he swears he was after the Hulk this time!"

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#109703: Sep 16th 2019 at 2:18:54 PM

@Known Unknown I came up with a term for something similar once, what I call "Hypocrite's Mirror": Basically, two sides of an argument call the other side a hypocrite for the same reasons. For example, group blue argues that group red is hypocritical for believing A but not B. Group red argues group blue is hypocritical for believing B but not A.

@Ultimatum Basically, the issue is that the person's motives for saying something does not actually make it true or false. The person speaking might be a Straw Hypocrite making an argument they don't believe in for personal gain, but it has no bearing on whether that argument is actually true.

For example, a person who sells reusable bags might argue that plastic disposable bags are bad for the environment and should be banned. One might argue they're just saying that because they're the ones selling reusable fabric bags and would make money if plastic bags were banned. Whether or not this is true, however, is irrelevant to the issue of whether plastic bags are harmful to the environment.

Leviticus 19:34
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#109704: Sep 16th 2019 at 2:19:56 PM

I for one hope Ross stays on the good path.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#109705: Sep 16th 2019 at 2:20:32 PM

It really depends on the type of argument.

If it's a matter of facts, logical consequences to actions, and other things that can be supported or dismissed objectively, then yeah, it should be battled in a vacuum independent from the mouth it came from no matter how inept, hypocritical, or untrustworthy it is. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, and they may be Right for the Wrong Reasons.

If it's something highly subjective like philosophical morality, then "You don't even practice what you preach, so I don't believe you have our best interests in mind with this suggested motion" is a valid point of attack. It's not like there's really much else to argue anyway since, again, it's a subjective matter.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Sep 16th 2019 at 5:21:49 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#109706: Sep 16th 2019 at 2:31:25 PM

Someone mentioned they hope Ross doesn't become Red Hulk. Honestly, with how old Ross is and how fragile his health is, I suspect any procedure he takes to become a gamma mutate would more likely kill him.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#109707: Sep 16th 2019 at 2:45:35 PM

From what I've heard, the Russos originally considered having Ross turn into the Red Hulk for Civil War, but they decided against it when they realized how many plots and characters they had to handle.

Although anything the MCU did with Red Hulk would be better then his initial comic appearance, where he beat up both the Watcher, Thor, and the Silver Surfer just to show how OP he was.

Cross (Don’t ask)
#109708: Sep 16th 2019 at 2:47:49 PM

Aren't those the normal go-tos for jobbing?

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#109709: Sep 16th 2019 at 2:55:58 PM

I think the appearance of Red Hulk would have confused people

"Why is The Hulk Red?Hulk is green you idiots"

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#109710: Sep 16th 2019 at 3:15:14 PM

I'd like to see Ross become the Red Hulk at some point. It's just a question of whether William Hurt is up for it.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#109711: Sep 16th 2019 at 3:15:21 PM

[up][up][up] I don’t even know much about the Surfer beyond his backstory and such, but I know he’s one of Marvel’s greatest jobbers.

Silver Surfer jobs like a guy with a 9-to-5. He jobs like his name was Steve. He jobs like a jogger who failed a spelling test.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 16th 2019 at 3:17:41 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#109712: Sep 16th 2019 at 3:15:57 PM

Black Panther once defeated the Silver Surfer by putting him in an arm bar.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#109713: Sep 16th 2019 at 3:17:59 PM

Norranthiel Radd claimed in the same issue that he was faking.

Up to you which stupid you believe.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Brandon Deadly Vu! from Between Thanksgiving and Christmas (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#109715: Sep 16th 2019 at 3:50:23 PM

Disney does not own apple but both companies have significant shares in each other

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alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#109716: Sep 16th 2019 at 4:20:35 PM

Apple (which is owned by Disney, I guess)
Nope. They are still competitors, actually. Bob Iger even resigned from his position on the Apple board because they were competing via streaming services.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#109717: Sep 16th 2019 at 4:21:39 PM

Question,if Hulk blushes doesn't that make him a red Hulk?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#109718: Sep 16th 2019 at 4:24:14 PM

Obviously the Hulk blushes green.

I mean, that the color of his blood.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#109719: Sep 16th 2019 at 5:20:03 PM

In some arguments, whatever the speaker Is a hypocript Is a valid one, qualification Is one of those.

And hell Ross Is not qualified, he didnt commit mistakes but crimes, plently of it.

And Is no much better here, Is entire rol in the movie Is to bitch at Tony a demanding results NOW.

He pretty much make Tony side worst by just being there

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#109720: Sep 16th 2019 at 5:31:50 PM

[up]I'm sorry, I wasn't aware he was here for a job interview because you're not even using the word right in this context. He would be "qualified" if he was able to make a strong argument for the Sokovia Accords. We're not talking about the moral high ground here.

And no, him just being there does not make Tony's side automatically wrong. What would make Tony's side wrong are the things Tony's side does and the arguments they make.

You know, in places where it would actually matter on thinking whether a side is wrong or right.

Edited by fredhot16 on Sep 16th 2019 at 5:32:43 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#109721: Sep 16th 2019 at 5:54:38 PM

Thing is, Ross isn't simply arguing that the Avengers are dangerously unaccountable. He's also arguing that the solution to their lack of accountability is to make them subordinate to an oversight organization run by Ross.

So Ross being a hypocrite does matter, because he's not simply someone having a debate; he's part of the issue being debated.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#109722: Sep 16th 2019 at 6:00:10 PM

Yes exactly.

Ross has already shown he should not go anywhere near super humans.

We've already mentioned how he both attacked a civilian institution on his home soil, and created a monster that was actually worse than the one he was hunting.

Ross is like, the absolute worst choice for being in charge of any kind of super human strike force. It's baffling he was able to even reach the position he had in the first place.

One Strip! One Strip!
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#109723: Sep 16th 2019 at 6:04:09 PM

Apropos of nothing, a persistent, currently running rumor is that Ross will be in charge of the Thunderbolts.

This song needs more love.
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#109724: Sep 16th 2019 at 6:07:10 PM

I'm not sure Ross would have that much overwhelming control over them. After all, isn't Stark the actual Avengers liaison and, seemingly, less replaceable then Ross considering he let Steve break the rest free with seemingly no consequences?

Also, why would he be the only one to say where to go and what to do, with no chance for different orders?

Edited by fredhot16 on Sep 16th 2019 at 6:27:54 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#109725: Sep 16th 2019 at 6:09:01 PM

While the Netflix shows' connection to the movies is shaky at best, Luke Cage mentions Trump and how the titular Luke will "make Harlem great again", so we can assume that Trump is at least a thing in the MCU if he's not outright president. So in the same universe where THAT and everything it entails can be allowed to happen, it's probably not the biggest of stretches that Thaddeus Ross could be failing upward. Which is kinda sad.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)

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