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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#109651: Sep 16th 2019 at 8:14:12 AM

First Avenger established Captain America, but Cap wasn't really a superhero. He was a soldier who fought in WWII. That was the extent of his actions.
I mean I'm pretty sure most normal people who knew who Cap was and what he did would classify him as a superhero.

This song needs more love.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#109652: Sep 16th 2019 at 8:19:22 AM

Speaking of things that don't make sense in hindsight, what was up with Tony showing up at the end of The Incredible Hulk to tell Ross about the Avengers Initiative? Why would that be information Ross needed to know?

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#109653: Sep 16th 2019 at 8:23:08 AM

Because Ross is just such a good guy who deserved a second chance.

Seriously, Ross' extended Karma Houdini thing is one of the most inexplicable aspects of the MCU, both narratively and In-Universe.

Edited by Larkmarn on Sep 16th 2019 at 11:24:12 AM

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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#109654: Sep 16th 2019 at 8:34:57 AM

[up][up] Here.

The short of it is that the WSC blamed the plot of The Incredible Hulk on Banner, since Blonsky waa a war hero, and wanted Blonksy for the Avengers - but in order to get Blonsky, they had to get Ross on board since Blonsky was under Ross' jurisdiction for some reason.

SHIELD didn't want that to happen for obvious reasons, so they sent Tony to "convince" Ross in a way that was so obnoxious that Ross would naturally refuse. End result, Ross signs off on Blonksy going into custody instead.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 16th 2019 at 8:37:33 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#109655: Sep 16th 2019 at 8:37:41 AM

Yeah. That stinger was another one of those scenes that didn't make much sense in retrospect, but they fixed that one pretty quick with a DVD bonus short.

The official answer is that S.H.I.E.L.D. tapped Tony to approach Ross in the hopes that Stark's toxic behavior and attitude would elicit a "F*CK OFF AND DIE" response, ending any possibility of Blonsky joining the Initiative.

True to form, Stark's attempt at diplomacy somehow managed to conclude with him buying Ross's favorite bar and having the place bulldozed.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 16th 2019 at 9:38:28 AM

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#109656: Sep 16th 2019 at 8:52:17 AM

Wonderful

Also I like to assume that Nick kept sending Hank Pym letters asking about Ant-Man and would he maybe be interested in rejoining SHIELD and Hank created a form letter saying FUCK OFF and they’ve been in correspondence for a while

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#109657: Sep 16th 2019 at 8:53:06 AM

In fairness there is no diplomacy with Ross.

Only Hulkbusters.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#109658: Sep 16th 2019 at 9:00:33 AM

That was also the only stinger that happened before the credits, since Marvel was still getting used to the whole "post-credits stinger" and they didn't want to waste the one scene with RDJ on something that a lot of people wouldn't see.

Nowadays, they know that people will stick around long enough, so they can stick an Endgame teaser after Captain Marvel.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#109659: Sep 16th 2019 at 9:01:15 AM

I always miss the stinger for some reason

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#109660: Sep 16th 2019 at 9:01:15 AM

Ah, back when they were trying to be grounded. Now I am half expecting the Stinger for Doctor Strange 2 to be someone looking over the texts on the various monsters before going “The future of this dimension lies in the past. Let me tell you of the days of high adventure!”

[up][up]When people say someone has “F- You money” that’s probably what they mean. It’s hilariously petty.

Edited by Beatman1 on Sep 16th 2019 at 12:01:58 PM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#109661: Sep 16th 2019 at 9:09:05 AM

Would Ross really have signed on Blonsky on the Avengers without Tony's interference? I know the guy doesn't have much of a conscience but even he isn't that much of an idiot.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#109662: Sep 16th 2019 at 9:11:38 AM

I mean, SHIELD is also holding Blonsky in a cryo-cell in Alaska. Well, they were before Winter Soldier; who knows where he is now.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#109663: Sep 16th 2019 at 10:03:57 AM

It's a standard part of superhero universes that tons of weird stuff has always been around on Earth ('cause you know writers are gonna want to do stories about mythological gods and heroes, or ancient alien conspiracies, or stuff like that), but in order for the world the heroes first appear in to remain largely the same as our own, for most of history all that stuff would have to stay hidden from public knowledge. It's only once some superpowered people start putting on colorful costumes and duking it out in public that this secrecy becomes impossible to maintain, and you get The Unmasqued World.

Tony was far from the first superhero in the MCU; he was just the first to make absolutely no effort at discretion (well, Captain America publicized himself a fair bit, but that was before he actually started doing superhero stuff). So Fury's initial plan for the Avengers Initiative probably involved recruiting Tony, tracking Banner down wherever he'd run off to, getting Hank Pym to come out of retirement, and trying to get Carol to answer his pages. Heck, we can't rule out the possibility that he knew about Kamar Taj and tried recruiting the Ancient One. The chief flaw in his plan is that none of these people is gonna be eager to join a secret quasi-government strike team.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#109664: Sep 16th 2019 at 10:08:25 AM

[up] Remember, he also recruited Black Widow onto his team and would have probably recruited Hawkeye.

And in Agents of SHIELD, it was stated that Melinda May was on his shortlist for the Avengers Initiative before the Bahrain incident. So he was looking not just for people with superpowers, but for his best highly trained operatives.

Edited by alliterator on Sep 16th 2019 at 10:08:56 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#109665: Sep 16th 2019 at 10:26:34 AM

Would Ross really have signed on Blonsky on the Avengers without Tony's interference? I know the guy doesn't have much of a conscience but even he isn't that much of an idiot.

Ross led a super-illegal military operation to shoot up a civilian college on United States soil. Just. So. So illegal. By all rights, career-endingly illegal.

In Endgame, he concluded a conversation with the Avengers by telling Rhodey to arrest all of the super-powered colleagues that Rhodey was visibly colluding with.

I wouldn't be too quick to give him the benefit of doubt. Ross is your classic General Ripper archetype who confuses mindlessly belligerent aggression with clever tactical decision-making.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 16th 2019 at 11:28:05 AM

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#109666: Sep 16th 2019 at 10:30:26 AM

Has there ever been anyone that failed their way up so spectacularly and illegally?

Probably, history is terrible

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Andrei_Bondoc Since: Jan, 2019
#109667: Sep 16th 2019 at 11:36:30 AM

Remember this post? The schedule has been changed. Tomorrow will be the day.

"Scooby Dooby Doo!"
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#109668: Sep 16th 2019 at 11:41:11 AM

Honestly, while I always hated Ross in comics, I never could bring myself to hate William Hurt's Ross.

Something about him just made him human and relatable to me. Can't quite put my finger on what it is.

Edited by Forenperser on Sep 16th 2019 at 8:44:03 PM

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windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#109669: Sep 16th 2019 at 12:01:31 PM

I like the Ross from Ang Lee's Hulk best.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#109670: Sep 16th 2019 at 12:08:25 PM

[up]That Ross is definitely more comics accurate in his bullying nature and the personal view of capturing Hulk. MCU Ross is a lot more...professional. He views the Hulk as property of the government and dammit, bringing him in is his job no matter the cost.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#109671: Sep 16th 2019 at 12:13:51 PM

I wouldn't call that Ross a bully. At worst, he's really overprotective of Betty as he fears Bruce is following his father's path too well and the ending implies he knows Bruce is alive but won't chase him. MCU Ross is far from professional and is actually worse than his comic counterpart given he revived a super soldier project illegally when it was discontinued, created two gamma mutates and made one a fugitive to cover up his failures and protect his career.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#109672: Sep 16th 2019 at 12:29:04 PM

Nothing is worse than Red Hulk.

Good god, I pray the MCU never goes down that stupid path^^

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#109673: Sep 16th 2019 at 12:36:35 PM

They won't,the films are only really interested in one type of Hulk,with the exception of Endgame

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#109674: Sep 16th 2019 at 12:40:20 PM

The General Maverick Red Hulk from US Avengers was pretty great

He actually had a mustache

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#109675: Sep 16th 2019 at 12:41:51 PM

created two gamma mutates and made one a fugitive to cover up his failures and protect his career.

And had the balls to blame the Avengers for losing track of Banner.

Seriously, I cannot fathom why they brought back Ross, especially for a movie that's supposed to somewhat be a Both Sides Have a Point narrative. Were they worried that Team Tony would be too sympathetic?

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.

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