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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#109151: Sep 9th 2019 at 7:57:58 PM

So, I was thinking, what do you guys think of this way of introducing the impending menace of Doctor Doom in the MCU.

In a stinger, or the end of the movie, Mordo appears all damaged to Strange, telling him how in his quest to lower the numbers of sorcerers in the world, he encountered someone powerful who was using dark sorcery to open a pprtal to hell, and was defeated by him.

Or showing Mordo entering the room where Doom is trying to open the portal, telling him he has come to stop him only to be blasted away by Doom, and some boasting by him.

It would be a great way to introduce to the casual audence that Doom is a master of sorcery. But alas, it all depends of what Marvel wants to do with Mordo, and if they want to use the Doom wants to free his mother from hell plot. Which can be change to using dark magic or something.

But that would mean giving Mordo the Worf Effect, which some people might not like.

Edited by eligram on Sep 9th 2019 at 11:02:48 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#109152: Sep 9th 2019 at 8:00:20 PM

[up][up]His pettiness stems from his desire to be the smartest person in the room. And by room, I mean the universe.

He hated Reed simply because he knew deep down that Reed is the smarter man.

[up]Yeah, I doubt that will happen with Mordo. Especially since he's pretty much being set up to be the next Big Bad Strange has to face, as per their relationship in the comics.

Edited by M84 on Sep 9th 2019 at 11:04:14 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#109153: Sep 9th 2019 at 8:09:15 PM

Doom is essentially the Lex Luthor of the Marvel Universe.

A malignent megalomaniacal narcissist who believes in his own lies about being the hottest shit ever and being a "noble" and "good" person, but his inability to let go of a petty grudge and willingness to commit horrific crimes for that petty grudge says otherwise.

Edited by Nightwire on Sep 9th 2019 at 8:11:02 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#109155: Sep 9th 2019 at 8:14:25 PM

And in the original Silver Age or something, they even had a similar motive. Though Lex's case was slightly more justified since Clark did accidentally make him go bald.

Edited by M84 on Sep 9th 2019 at 11:14:50 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#109156: Sep 9th 2019 at 8:15:11 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if they introduced Doom in The Stinger to the Fantastic Four movie. I think Marvel would want to have a different villain to make their introduction stand out (since Doom was the main villain in 3/4 of the previous movies, and major secondary threat in Rise of the Silver Surfer). The Fantastic Four save the day, are heralded as the next great heroes, and we cut to Doom watching news reels seething in anger.

Maybe it would work best if they hint at the rivalry between Reed and Doom over the course of the movie without making it the central focus. Maybe have him recount his past history with Doom when talking about the risks scientific progress can make? Either way, I think the MCU is going to build up Doom instead of just dumping him into the FF's origin again.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#109157: Sep 9th 2019 at 8:15:18 PM

Yeah, whether they ultimately decide to have skew more towards good or evil, Mordo is Strange's Loki and they're probably not going to throw him under the bus in favor of someone else's villain.

MrSeyker Since: Apr, 2011
#109158: Sep 9th 2019 at 8:33:09 PM

Just popping out to say that Andrei_Bondoc got it wrong, Brian Tyler is not the first person to compose more than one film for the MCU.

Alan Silvestri beat him to the punch with The First Avenger and The Avengers.

Andrei_Bondoc Since: Jan, 2019
#109159: Sep 10th 2019 at 3:08:38 AM

[up]Thank you for your observation!

But this point still stands: Brian Tyler is the only person who composed two MCU films in the same year.

I apologize to everyone for this mistake.

Edited by Andrei_Bondoc on Sep 10th 2019 at 1:09:00 PM

"Scooby Dooby Doo!"
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#109160: Sep 10th 2019 at 5:05:55 AM

The thing about Doom being a petty asshole is that there have already been a lot of those, including Mysterio very recently.

The legend has returned.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#109161: Sep 10th 2019 at 5:33:39 AM

And it would be in-character for Doom to be just as obsessed with Strange for being his superior in the arcane as he is with Reed for being smarter than him.

Doom, whatever else one says about him, has an obsessive desire to always be the very best. It's the root of much of his villany.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#109162: Sep 10th 2019 at 5:52:30 AM

One retcon I read was that the machine didn't damage Doom's face that badly but he was so vain that he felt the need to hide it. So he forged a mask but because it hadn't cooled properly before he put it on he ended up damaging his own face.

Basically, Doom has always been his own worst enemy.

I also hope we get an adaptation of this moment from Fraction's FF because it shows Doom for what he truly is.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#109163: Sep 10th 2019 at 5:54:32 AM

I could honestly see Doom having a bit role in the next Doctor Strange, where Strange has to appeal to his vanity to get a plot item.

Then the post-credits is him leading the Latveria tour and blowing away the rebels led by Miss America idea, cementing him as a very complex man, more than willing to do what is right, so long as his utterly massive ego is satiated in the progress.

[up]If any story exemplified the vanity that is Victor Von Doom, that’s it.

Edited by Beatman1 on Sep 10th 2019 at 8:56:27 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#109164: Sep 10th 2019 at 6:34:12 AM

"Your nuance is the solid gold toilet seat in Saddam's palace. Your sophistication is the Wagner phonograph in the background at the Wannsee Conference. Your depth is the hopper capacity of Uday's and Qusay's wood chipper."

Brilliant.

Edited by M84 on Sep 10th 2019 at 9:34:29 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#109165: Sep 10th 2019 at 6:38:31 AM

Wait, didn't people hate that moment? Or am I misremembering it?

I personally thought that a guy like Doom deserved a verbal beating like that, but that's just me.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#109166: Sep 10th 2019 at 6:41:12 AM

Certain fans of Doom hate it but it's considered by some to be CMOA for Scott.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#109167: Sep 10th 2019 at 6:45:41 AM

Well, that was gross.

I'm going to pass on having a hero in an MCU film go on a five-minute rant about how "sociopaths" (not a real thing, by the way) are subhumans monsters powered by pure evil and utterly incapable of ever having any redeeming qualities, capped off by what is basically torture porn against a defenseless and beaten foe as he begs and pleads for mercy.

That was probably the least heroic thing I've ever seen a heroic character do in a long time, and I've read Punisher comics. A prolonged love note to the "mental illness = evil" claim is not what I want to see in the MCU.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 10th 2019 at 7:49:33 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#109168: Sep 10th 2019 at 6:50:32 AM

I believe some of the most vile serial killers in history have been sociopaths.

And they are some of the closest examples of pure evil you can get.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 10th 2019 at 6:51:45 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#109169: Sep 10th 2019 at 6:50:56 AM

Imagine if the new fantastic four movie had Galactus and Doctor Doom somehow

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#109170: Sep 10th 2019 at 6:51:52 AM

Putting Galactus and Doom and the Fantastic Four in a single movie has historically gone really really well if you’re a fan of the first Star Trek movie

Edited by Bocaj on Sep 10th 2019 at 9:52:21 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#109171: Sep 10th 2019 at 6:52:32 AM

[up][up][up]Plus, it's Doom.

The man reeks of petty a-hole-ness so hard, it might as well be his middle name.

Doctor Victor Petty A-Hole-ness Von Doom.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Sep 10th 2019 at 9:52:53 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#109172: Sep 10th 2019 at 6:53:56 AM

Doom isn't begging and pleading for mercy, save for that thing with the mask. And the whole time he's struggling to get that device that gives him godlike power.

Edited by M84 on Sep 10th 2019 at 9:54:14 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#109173: Sep 10th 2019 at 7:00:45 AM

I believe some of the most vile serial killers in history have been sociopaths.

And they are some of the closest examples of pure evil you can get.

Sociopaths aren't a thing. It's an outdated medical diagnosis that society refuses to let go of, because the existence of a "Pure Evil disease", regardless of its factual accuracy, makes people feel justified in seeking violent catharsis.

"Not that there was anyone inside that empty suit of armor. Oh, there may have been seventy kilograms of breathing, bleeding flesh housed inside, but certainly nothing I'd call human."

"It's not the ugly, dead scar tissue of your face that isolates you from humanity. It's the ugly, dead scar tissue of your soul."

"I've had the misfortune of meeting people convinced you're not a monster. That you're nuanced. Layered. Deep. Having some of the cell-mates I had would soon cure them of that view. Sociopaths mimic human virtues the way jackdaws mimic human voices."

Yeah, this is all really gross shit for a hero to be saying in his moment of climactic triumph. Bonus points for the "cell-mates" panel drawing attention to Scott sitting at a prison table with a POC.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 10th 2019 at 8:02:40 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#109174: Sep 10th 2019 at 7:01:48 AM

[up]Scott isn't sitting at that table. He's the guy in the background with the red hair. The implication is that both of those guys are the kind of person he's talking about.

Edited by M84 on Sep 10th 2019 at 10:03:34 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#109175: Sep 10th 2019 at 7:02:21 AM

About half of it is ok

I think the thing about people convinced DOOM is not a monster because he affects a sense of baby words game honor and civility is valid to point out

As is the overall point that it’s Doom’s own actions, not appearance which isolate him from people

Edited by Bocaj on Sep 10th 2019 at 10:04:11 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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