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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#108976: Sep 7th 2019 at 7:17:21 PM

There was a lot of Early Installment Weirdness at the beginning of the MCU.

My various fanfics.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#108977: Sep 7th 2019 at 7:18:39 PM

Like Bruce Banner getting plastic surgery to turn him into another person.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#108978: Sep 7th 2019 at 7:18:41 PM

The one shot doesn’t clear things up in that front, though it does fiddle with expectations a bit.

The stinger makes you think that Tony’s there to talk to Ross about recruiting Banner. The one shot clarifies that the WSC actually wanted Blonsky for The Avengers, and Tony was there as a False Flag Operation to ask for Blonksy on SHIELD’s “behalf” but be so obnoxious that Ross would refuse.

IIRC, IM 2 (and the Avengers itself, I think) explains the shift as the original attempt to set up The Avengers failing between films.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 7th 2019 at 7:20:18 AM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#108979: Sep 7th 2019 at 7:23:15 PM

If you want to get technical, Iron Man 2 is supposed to take place before the events of The Incredible Hulk. During the ending when Tony's talking with Fury, we can see news footage of the Hulk's fight with the military in the background. So the events of Iron Man 2 happened, then The Incredible Hulk and Thor roughly happened at the same time afterwards.

There's a reason the tie-in comic at the time was called Fury's Big Week.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#108980: Sep 7th 2019 at 8:11:44 PM

Actually, now that I think about it, every episode should end in Thanos wiping out the universe 'cause Dr. Strange said there was only one reality where he's defeated.

Oh, please, we all know Doctor Strange found plenty of timelines where they won against Thanos. He just cherry-picked out one where Tony Stark also dies, as punishment for backsassing him too much. tongue

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#108981: Sep 7th 2019 at 9:25:30 PM

[up][up] Isn’t it supposed to be all around the same time?

Like, wasn’t it that Thor getting sent to Earth created a wave of strange weather, which can be seen being reported on in the background in Iron Man around the time Coulson leaves for the midwest, and which creates the thunderstorm that Banner and Betty run into in TIH?

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#108982: Sep 8th 2019 at 12:36:02 AM

One thing I noticed in the interview for What If? is that the showrunner seemed to shoot down the rumor that each MCU movie would be getting its episode. She also cautioned that the objective was to "hopefully see the majority of the characters from the movies," but made it sound like that isn't a sure thing.

Given that the two Spider-Man movies were actually Sony productions and not actually done by Disney (despite Feige producing), I'm guessing those two won't be getting episodes. Though I wonder if Marvel and Sony would be willing to have Tom Holland voice Spider-Man in an episode based on Civil War or Infinity War.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#108983: Sep 8th 2019 at 1:21:03 AM

wild mass guessThere's an episode that is just "What If Spider-Man wasn't in the MCU?" and it covers the events of Civil War, Homecoming, Infinity War, Endgame, and Far From Home. From that point forward, all What If episodes using those movies take place as spin-offs of that first episode, and it's eventually revealed that Phase 4 of the MCU is taking place in the universe Spider-Man isn't in.wild mass guess

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#108984: Sep 8th 2019 at 1:28:05 AM

Since What If? will be animated, I think they can still use Spider-Man so long as the episodes are under 40 minutes.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#108986: Sep 8th 2019 at 7:12:01 AM

Ah, Iron Man 3. This is probably one of the most polarizing of the MCU films. I've seen people praise it for its unique approach for an Iron Man movie, and condemn it for the same reason. You can definitely tell it's a Shane Black movie, so it has that going for it.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#108987: Sep 8th 2019 at 7:23:35 AM

Iron Man 3 is, in my opinion, the best of the bad ones.

The legend has returned.
unexplainedEnemy from hell pit Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#108988: Sep 8th 2019 at 8:15:39 AM

A little late to this, but I'd say my top 3 MCU moments, in no particular order, are:

  • The fight on the rainbow bridge set to Immigrant Song.
  • Bucky and Cap's fight at the end of Winter Soldier.
  • The Mysterio illusion sequence.

There's a lot of other moments that I'm quite fond of, ( Yondu's funeral being a very close runner-up) but those are probably the three I like the most.

they're gonna find intelligent life up there on the moon/and the canterbury tales will shoot up to the top of the best-seller list
Brandon Deadly Vu! from Between Thanksgiving and Christmas (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Deadly Vu!
#108989: Sep 8th 2019 at 9:25:51 AM

I haven't actually bothered to watch Iron Man 3 in so long, and last time I did, I felt like the film had severe Ending Fatigue.

It literally feels like the film is about to wrap up three times, before it's shown that Tony Stark has to go rescue someone else... and then Tony has to fight the main villain, and save Pepper !

Oh yeah, and that whole thing with the Mandarin which has long been discussed as well.

The only good moment in Iron Man 3 that I ever remember is The Stinger.

Edited by Brandon on Sep 8th 2019 at 9:30:31 AM

Like creepy stories? Check out my book!
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#108990: Sep 8th 2019 at 9:47:17 AM

It’s kinda funny that IM3 was made before the MCU gained a reputation for using Generic Doomsday Villains with copies of the heroes’s powers, since IM3 tried to make an intentionally generic villain with the Mandarin, and Killian is generally considered disappointing regardless of having a completely unique power set.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Sep 8th 2019 at 9:48:39 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#108991: Sep 8th 2019 at 9:48:31 AM

I thought the powerset was cool

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#108992: Sep 8th 2019 at 10:06:57 AM

[up][up]From what I've seen, both Mandarin and the guy that steals his identity are much more well-received villains than Killian, the archetypal petty jackass who was wronged by Tony Stank.

The legend has returned.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#108993: Sep 8th 2019 at 10:14:05 AM

The problem with Killian is that he's actually pretty generic in a different way. He's yet another evil scientist, with a rather generic petty grudge against Stark. Mandarin, by contrast, was a type of villain Iron Man hadn't gone up against yet, and his motives (some hatred of the west, I gathered) were more compelling than the petty revenge plot.

Mind you, the movie has other problems, too. I find the plot of veterans becoming suicide bombers a bit offensive, for example. Also, this might be a sort of nitpick, but removing the arc reactor from Stark was a bad idea.

Leviticus 19:34
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#108994: Sep 8th 2019 at 10:16:07 AM

The veterans weren't becoming suicide bombers. Killian was covering up their deaths by having a fake Mandarin claim that they were bombings.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#108995: Sep 8th 2019 at 10:20:34 AM

At the very least they were complicit in plots to set up bombings and aiding a political coup, flimsily said to come from desperation for being healed through Extremis.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Sep 8th 2019 at 10:21:48 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#108996: Sep 8th 2019 at 10:27:27 AM

I think Killian would have benefit as a villain if they cut out his personal connection to Tony. It adds nothing to the film and only serves to muddle the conversation surrounding him. He's got a pretty interesting plot and I actually like that much of his villainy is a reaction to a f*ck-up rather than a deliberately conceived master plan.

This isn't really about getting revenge on Tony. The only reason Tony's even involved is because Maya's hit a dead-end on cracking Extremis, and they need Tony's brain to finish the work. That works just fine in a vacuum, no personal connection required. But putting "Tony slighted me!" into his character motivation causes people to still slot him into the 'Angry Dude Lashing Out at Tony Stark Specifically' category.

Both Killian and the film as a whole would have been better off if he was just a bad guy Science Dude using fake terrorism to disguise his explosive failures, and then targeted for reprisal against one such explosion by Iron Man. And also if they didn't call him the Mandarin.

Also, if he was Maya Hansen. That would have worked too. Could even keep the personal connection if he's Maya. We've had plenty of "Tony Stark ruined my life" villains, but the only competition for "Tony Stark helped me create my evil plan! I owe your doom to Tony Stark!" is Ultron.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 8th 2019 at 11:30:21 AM

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Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#108997: Sep 8th 2019 at 10:37:02 AM

That was basically Maya’s motive in the comic. She wanted the boatload of money that would come from a military contract, figured pitting the Extremis subject against Iron Man would show America the formula’s incredible potential, and convinced herself she just wanted the fast war money to get Extremis into the peaceful medicine field sooner. There wasn’t any revenge component.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#108998: Sep 8th 2019 at 10:39:29 AM

For me they just needed to rethink Killian from the ground-up. There's too little to distinguish him from Justin Hammer and Obadiah Stane in the previous films. He's effectively Stane without the Parental Substitute shades with Tony or Hammer without being Laughably Evil. His character, as it is, is comparable to Ezekiel Stane (rich playboy motivated by perceived humiliation). If they had made him that it'd already be an improvement, which says something about how generic Killian is.

He'd actually probably have worked better as a take on the actual comics Justin Hammer, the old, Professor Moriarty-esque enigmatic Diabolical Mastermind.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#108999: Sep 8th 2019 at 11:04:41 AM

[up] Now that you bring that up, I am disappointed that we didn't get to see a Peter Cushing-esque villain for Tony Stark.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#109000: Sep 8th 2019 at 11:14:33 AM

Making the villain Maya instead of Killian would've served the plot better, but it still has its problems. Essentially, the first female Big Bad in the MCU would've just been a jilted lover of the hero. It doesn't necessarily have to be framed like that, but there still would've been shades of that in her motivations.

Iron Man 3 is also in this weird place in that it was basically written to be the final film for RDJ as Iron Man. His initial contract with Marvel was up at that point, so this could've been his final film (I don't remember if he was already contracted for Age of Ultron at this point). It makes some of the creative decisions make more sense such as destroying the Malibu mansion, Tony blowing up all of his suits and removing his arc reactor.

How would you guys feel if this did turn out to be the final appearance of Iron Man in the MCU? While I like the film, I think what we got with Tony afterwards was a more dynamic route for him and ultimately was a better send-off by Endgame.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Sep 8th 2019 at 2:16:10 PM


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