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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#108851: Sep 6th 2019 at 10:21:23 AM

Yeah, no.

They might hand the reins to James Gunn now that he's back for Vol. 3, but I think we'll find out the way the game goes with the next movies post-endgame. If, say, Multiverse of Madness proves to be a massive hit critically and commercially and the director is there for it, they could pass it to him.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#108852: Sep 6th 2019 at 10:24:10 AM

Yeah.

I think there's a reason Phase 4 isn't ending with an Avengers movie, and that reason is that the MCU has entered its "Shit, what the f*ck do we do now?!" period.

Not just with the films, but also with the transition to making Disney+ streaming shows alongside them. This is a very experimental time for the franchise. Also a delicate one; many a franchise has gone downhill after passing the Obvious Ending Movie/Episode/Game.

It needs some time to figure out what its new identity is going to be now that Endgame has used up all of the momentum it's been running on for years.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 6th 2019 at 11:25:45 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#108853: Sep 6th 2019 at 10:26:41 AM

In a lot of ways we're back to square one.

No idea what's the long game, no big crossovers and events to look forwards to, no big Greater-Scope Villain.

I guess it must've been like this for people who were already following the franchise since Phase One.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#108854: Sep 6th 2019 at 10:27:39 AM

so no rian johnson as well I take it

Edited by Ultimatum on Sep 6th 2019 at 5:28:15 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#108855: Sep 6th 2019 at 10:29:10 AM

No, there was a long-game and big crossover to look forward to back in Phase One. From the first Iron Man film, we knew that Avengers was the plan. We just didn't know if Marvel would actually get there. It seemed, at the time, tremendously ambitious for a niche genre.

We wanted Avengers to happen. But we didn't fully believe it would actually materialize. Movies like that don't actually get made.

This period of complete absolute uncertainty is a new development for the MCU.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 6th 2019 at 11:33:16 AM

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Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#108856: Sep 6th 2019 at 10:31:43 AM

Doesn't JJ Abrams also have Star Trek to worry about?

The legend has returned.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#108857: Sep 6th 2019 at 10:32:41 AM

To add to what I was saying, that trailer that served as First Avenger's stinger was mind-blowing in its day. That was the moment that the Avengers film stopped being a "Yeah, we'll see" promise and became real. They were actually making this. It was really happening.

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chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#108858: Sep 6th 2019 at 10:34:45 AM

Yeah, unlike the last three phases, we don't know what the endgame (heh) of Phase Four will be, if there even is one. It's probably just going to focus on expanding the world and establishing a new status quo after Phase Three shook things up so much.

I remember how Honest Trailers described each of the phases by comparing them to a rock band. One was where the found their voice, Two was their experimental period, Three was the "WOO-HOO! We can do whatever we want!" period, and they worried Four would be the "vomiting in the alleyway wondering where it all went wrong" period.

I don't think the MCU will crash that hard, but it's definitely going to be an interesting place for the series going forward.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#108859: Sep 6th 2019 at 11:16:37 AM

I actually would love it if Rian Johnson would make a MCU film. I loved Brick, The Brothers Bloom, The Last Jedi, and Knives Out looks fucking fantastic.

It needs to be something he's really good at, though. Perhaps Thunderbolts?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#108860: Sep 6th 2019 at 11:21:43 AM

Ship might have sailed on Thunderbolts. Zemo's going to be the bad guy for Sam and Bucky's show, and it just isn't Thunderbolts without Zemo.

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LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#108861: Sep 6th 2019 at 11:23:37 AM

[up]Conversely, this could be what sets Thunderbolts up.

This song needs more love.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#108862: Sep 6th 2019 at 11:24:49 AM

It could but I kinda doubt it. Zemo's already in a perfect position to set up Thunderbolts. I don't see how having him return to menace Sam and Bucky some more could really improve his position for a potential Thunderbolts movie. I can see plenty of ways it could harm that position, though. Especially if they kill him off.

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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#108863: Sep 6th 2019 at 11:36:49 AM

They could do it without Zemo. I've already been expecting it, because MCU Zemo isn't really the "team of supervillains" type. They could use another character in the same role.

There was a theory before that, since they're almost certainly compositing Fu Manchu with the Mandarin in Shang Chi, that they might also composite the character of Fu Manchu's daughter (one of Shang Chi's antagonists) with Mandarin's daughter (Sasha Hammer). If they further composite Sasha with her mother (the Crimson Cowl) they could have her be the head of the Masters of Evil.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#108864: Sep 6th 2019 at 11:41:10 AM

Wouldn't it just be easier to have the Crimson Cowl herself be the head of the Masters of Evil?

Or better yet, a Mesters of Evil expy with a better name. Infinity War never used "Black Order", the names available.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#108865: Sep 6th 2019 at 11:42:52 AM

The Masters of Evil is a fine name. Just have them call themselves "the masters." I had a fun idea that they could to the Nick Fury "let me talk to you about the Avengers Initiative" scenes, but with villains, and have the word "master" be dropped somewhere in every one.

But a Thunderbolts story is the best way to introduce the Masters of Evil in this universe anyway, and the state of the MCU right now is great for it.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 6th 2019 at 11:43:56 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#108866: Sep 6th 2019 at 11:45:57 AM

Masters of the World

Eshu: "HEY!"

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#108867: Sep 6th 2019 at 11:56:48 AM

It's going to be interesting to see how Zemo gets involved in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, because he really doesn't seem like a villain with a lot left for him to fight for.

He lost his family, he technically succeeded in tearing apart the Avengers, so what brings him back into the fray? Maybe the Snap made him change his perspective on things? Maybe he realized he didn't go far enough? Or maybe he might try to atone for his crimes?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#108868: Sep 6th 2019 at 12:21:00 PM

I'm 50% certain that TFATWS (FATWS? FAWS?) is going to end with Secretary Ross telling Zemo "I'm here to talk to you about the Thunderbolts Initiative."

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#108869: Sep 6th 2019 at 12:21:33 PM

[up][up] I would not be surprised if Baron Zemo decides that if he cannot destroy the Avengers or discredit them, he will try to replace them.

Edited by Shadao on Sep 6th 2019 at 12:21:44 PM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#108870: Sep 6th 2019 at 1:06:15 PM

Yeah, I just think there's a large gap between "Do you really think I wanted more of you?" to "I'm gonna lead a team of supervillains".

I think it can be done, it's just going to be a long journey to see Zemo reach that point.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#108871: Sep 6th 2019 at 1:51:08 PM

It’s pretty unlikely seeing him take up a person in Citizen V.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#108872: Sep 6th 2019 at 2:12:48 PM

Doesn't JJ Abrams also have Star Trek to worry about?

The new Star Trek movie has been in Development Hell for quite a while, and I don't think Abrams was attached to that one in the first place. The rumor for quite a while has been that Quentin Tarantino might be doing the next one.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#108873: Sep 6th 2019 at 2:22:27 PM

I could 100% believe the Zemo we have now accepting an offer from Ross to run his own "proper" Accords-abiding equivalent to the Avengers. That could happen in the very next movie and I would believe it.

Especially if one of their missions is to hunt down and arrest the fugitive Avengers.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 6th 2019 at 3:24:32 AM

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HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#108874: Sep 6th 2019 at 2:30:34 PM

[up]x2 Not sure an auteur with such a distictive style such as Tarantino is a good pick to work on a ongoing franchise.

A one off spin-off? Sure. Several movies? Erm, no.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#108875: Sep 6th 2019 at 2:56:49 PM

It's going to be interesting to see how Zemo gets involved in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, because he really doesn't seem like a villain with a lot left for him to fight for.

He lost his family, he technically succeeded in tearing apart the Avengers, so what brings him back into the fray? Maybe the Snap made him change his perspective on things? Maybe he realized he didn't go far enough? Or maybe he might try to atone for his crimes?

I guess it will depend on what has happened in the universe post-Endgame. One thing that's interesting is the Avengers are in kind of a nebulous place right now. Obviously there will eventually be another movie, but it's unclear if the team itself actively exists right now given everything that happened (especially with Avengers HQ destroyed).


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