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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#108251: Aug 28th 2019 at 4:37:09 PM

One of the last novel arcs before the decanoning did have Jedi vs elder god type creatures

Also whatever the hell Waru was

Edited by Bocaj on Aug 28th 2019 at 7:38:47 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#108252: Aug 28th 2019 at 4:59:04 PM

You also have the Yuuzhan Vong,the stuff of Jedi nightmares

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#108253: Aug 28th 2019 at 5:29:43 PM

Star Wars does have a lot of genre potential, owing to itself being a bit of a genre buster. In tone and characterization it’s a pulp throwback, which gives it a lot of avenues for theming as long as the popcorn tension and romanticized heroes are retained (hence working as a western) - a Star Wars horror movie, for example, could work if done right, especially cosmic horror. Genre-wise, it’s sci-fantasy, with potential to bring in elements from either or both as desired (it is not, however, HIGH fantasy or sci-fi, so that only goes so far). It also has a lot of variety in the kind of story old: running the gamut from folklore based to more dramatic to self referential.

The problem isn’t that that it doesn’t have potential, it’s that said potential isn’t really being used outside of side content, and when it is Disney doesn’t really embrace it. I again believe that if Disney has advertised Solo more strongly as a raucous, strange space western first rather than as “the story of your favorite supporting character!” it would have worked better.

It does not, however, have as much sheer potential as Marvel does - it’s worth admitting. Star Wars can do GOTG, but it can’t do Thor. And yes, using that potential is a major factor to its success. But I don’t think that potential alone is the linchpin.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 28th 2019 at 5:32:15 AM

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#108254: Aug 28th 2019 at 6:29:19 PM

"Star Wars is advertising on its poster that Palpatine is back...somehow, and that’s why you should care. Because this villain from the original trilogy has returned. And he returned presumably because the First Order went over so badly the original Big Bad, a guy who once proclaimed in Dark Empire that he was the Dark Side incarnate, was the only way to bring the trilogy to a satisfying conclusion. The potential outside of that group of people that is rather small, as is the desire to see further corners of that universe divorced from the main cast."

Disney has his problems but reviving Palpatine is a horrible idea.

What Star Wars needs least is to be Hijacked by Ganon.

—-

One idea that I would like for Star Wars is that there be more non-human protagonists.

They have a vast universe with thousands of different alien species, and the protagonists are almost always the humans.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Aug 28th 2019 at 6:32:35 AM

Brandon Deadly Vu! from Between Thanksgiving and Christmas (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Deadly Vu!
#108255: Aug 28th 2019 at 10:30:49 PM

Ive been betting that Palpatine only appears as a force ghost, or a hallucination to Kylo. And probably won't be in many scenes.

Like creepy stories? Check out my book!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#108256: Aug 28th 2019 at 10:35:46 PM

In hindsight Disney is bit too reliant on nostalgia to sell Star Wars.

That's the thing about nostalgia, its sells but there's a limit, both in how much it sells & how long it sells.

The MCU by comparison is not so reliant on nostalgia.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#108257: Aug 28th 2019 at 10:52:23 PM

While I do enjoy the ST, I think it would have been better as a whole if the conflict of the films, while keeping many of the same characters, was set further into the future so they didn't have to bank so much on nostalgia. You could probably still have Threepio, Artoo and Chewie in the movies, while having Luke, Leia and Han show up via flashback or something like that.

Still, I don't hate what we have.

Oh God! Natural light!
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#108258: Aug 29th 2019 at 5:50:51 AM

In hindsight Disney is bit too reliant on nostalgia to sell Star Wars.

I've skimmed posts in the STW thread that analyze TLJ and TFA as being repeats of Episodes 4 and 5.

I've skimmed complaints about the ST saying they take all of the nostalgic elements of the franchise and either murder them, or try to repackage them in less appealing ways.

If you made "STAR WARS EPISODE 7: The entirely new thing that is only distantly connected to the last 6 films" nobody would watch it. Old fans and audiences would have no reason to see it because it becomes "that thing you liked In Name Only." I don't know why anyone would bother.

And most probably didn't ask for Star Wars to come back for new audiences, nor was it really open to a sequel. It was already a cultural icon that was completely finished sans the Expanded Universe - and that itself was a bunch of fans taking Lucas's toolbox and running wild with it.

Marvel however is reintroducing properties that have existed for far longer than Star Wars has, and characters that have been handled and tackled by numerous hands and minds. It's far easier to bring that back, and be less reliant on nostalgia I guess, because anyone familiar with those characters has already endured years and years of the ideas and cast shifting and changing.

Edited by Soble on Aug 29th 2019 at 7:45:51 AM

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#108259: Aug 29th 2019 at 6:43:04 AM

I personally liked how Last Jedi remixes and played with elements of Empire and Return

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Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#108260: Aug 29th 2019 at 6:49:42 AM

That’s also the issue with a sprawling world with dozens of characters and a more isolated one with a few characters. People who dislike one character in the MCU are fine by avoiding their films. That’s not an option for Star Wars. There’s far less of a margin for error, hence Sheev coming back.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#108261: Aug 29th 2019 at 6:51:33 AM

Kind of funny, that

Marvel is primarily set on one world and Star Wars has many and yet Star Wars has more narrow focus

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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#108262: Aug 29th 2019 at 8:15:57 AM

If you made "STAR WARS EPISODE 7: The entirely new thing that is only distantly connected to the last 6 films" nobody would watch it. Old fans and audiences would have no reason to see it

The prequels say hello.

Heck, every new Marvel movie that sells itself as being in the MCU but is unrelated to the other characters except distantly (of which we’re getting a lot in the next few years) says hello.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#108263: Aug 29th 2019 at 8:24:03 AM

The prequels had Anakin Vader and Young-Ben Kenobi

Also C3PO and R2

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Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#108264: Aug 29th 2019 at 8:25:32 AM

And don't forget the Dark Memelord, Palpatine.

The legend has returned.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#108265: Aug 29th 2019 at 8:29:43 AM

Also Yoda

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fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#108266: Aug 29th 2019 at 8:36:57 AM

Also, Dexter Jexter.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#108267: Aug 29th 2019 at 8:51:38 AM

Yeah I mean I wasn't around for the initial prequel hype but wasn't Episode I basically almost entirely advertised on the "Darth Vader as a kid" concept?

Edited by LordVatek on Aug 29th 2019 at 11:53:05 AM

This song needs more love.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#108268: Aug 29th 2019 at 8:53:03 AM

Also had Boba Not-Yett.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#108269: Aug 29th 2019 at 9:04:45 AM

The main draw of Episodes I-III was finally finding out WTF the Clone War is and, more importantly, getting to witness Darth Vader's Start of Darkness (as well as that of the Empire as a whole).

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#108270: Aug 29th 2019 at 9:22:33 AM

[up][up] Damn that’s good

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TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#108271: Aug 29th 2019 at 9:25:44 AM

So...remember when everyone went and spent money to watch Venom because of that one tiny microscopic possibility that Tom Holland would appear as Peter Parker, only to be disappointed that no such event happened and they just spent money on a subpar anti-hero movie?

Apparently Tom Holland DID film a scene for Venom, but Marvel told Sony to cut it.

...Anyone suspecting Sony leaked that on purpose to drum up sympathy again?

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#108272: Aug 29th 2019 at 9:38:23 AM

[up]Suspicious much?

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#108273: Aug 29th 2019 at 9:42:39 AM

[up][up] I mean, Spider-Man was dead at the time, so I understand why Marvel told them to cut it.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#108274: Aug 29th 2019 at 9:46:24 AM

[up][up] Very suspicious. I'm suspecting that Sony leaked this to see if letting Disney keep using Spidey will be worth it by saying "ooh, we filmed a scene for Venom with Tom Holland in it, but big bad Marvel wouldn’t let us keep it boo hoo hoo" and seeing what reactions pop up.

If the majority is all "wth marvel," then no new Spidey deal. If the majority is "good. Sony sux ass," then yes new Spidey deal.

Though it's entirely possible this is our imagination talking, considering how sneaky Sony and Rothman have been, I'm not entirely disregarding the possibility...

Point is, I’m with Marvel on this call.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Aug 29th 2019 at 12:47:14 PM

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#108275: Aug 29th 2019 at 9:49:45 AM

Dunno, if anybody was going to leak the deal falling apart, I would assume it's Disney trying to use fan outrage to leverage a more favorable outcome for a lengthier period of time. Even if they both have some face to lose, I think Disney is confident they could weather the storm a little more readily than Sony could.

Edited by Khfan429 on Aug 29th 2019 at 9:51:14 AM


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