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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#108226: Aug 28th 2019 at 12:54:24 PM

[down]Han Solo trilogy, X-Wing series (General Solo, anybody?), yadda yadda.

Edited by fredhot16 on Aug 28th 2019 at 12:55:41 PM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#108227: Aug 28th 2019 at 12:54:37 PM

[up][up]It probably would have been reversed if it was, say, one of the main Star Wars films up against Dr. Strange.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Aug 28th 2019 at 12:55:19 PM

eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#108228: Aug 28th 2019 at 12:55:34 PM

Wow, did I miss the announcement that Star Wars is part of the MCU?

... you know, I just had a fearsome thought. Imagine the Stormtroopers armor beign as technologicaly advanced as the Ironman or the War Machine suit. The empire would be unstopable.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#108229: Aug 28th 2019 at 12:56:16 PM

Marvel, and the MCU in particular, seems to have become the successor to Harry Potter and Naruto as the fandoms that cannot be escaped no matter what you do.

Edited by HamburgerTime on Aug 28th 2019 at 2:57:40 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#108230: Aug 28th 2019 at 12:56:25 PM

and the force is all the Mindstone's doing..

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#108231: Aug 28th 2019 at 12:56:36 PM

No, then the Rebel Alliance would get the quirky aliens with OP abilities.

eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#108232: Aug 28th 2019 at 12:58:38 PM

I mean, the only quirky alien in the MCU is Mantis, and her power is not something I would call OP.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#108233: Aug 28th 2019 at 1:01:27 PM

Earth becomes an evil empire in Avengers Forever with forces based on the Avengers

Imagine a battalion, each as strong as Iron Man. A platoon of giant mens. A force of spies with the power of Wasp.

Having an emperor with bullshit reality warping powers on top of that just seems unfair, insult to injury

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#108234: Aug 28th 2019 at 1:01:58 PM

Star Wars vs. Marvel being a total Squash Match in favor of Marvel was admittedly unexpected, I'll say.

Nah, it makes sense.

Star Wars has been a mainstay of pop culture thing for decades, but it's also been a background mainstay of pop culture for decades. Like Sherlock Holmes. Or... well... Star Trek.

Marvel, meanwhile, is riding the high of something many cinematic universes - hell, many properties being revived or rebooted in general - fail to do when facing new eras: introducing the public to the characters. Marvel's skill is in letting people know these guys exist in a way that brings those characters into the household - so, to use the same example, when Ant-Man premieres people think "wow, a new guy" instead of "who's this rando?"

Making people see only the characters first (and then invest in their history), and not think of them as per their history first, lets the audience become newly invested in whatever you choose to release, and is a big reason behind the MCU's success. If you do already know the characters, the MCU is enhanced for you, but even if you don't you still get just as much investment out of getting to know them.

But Star Wars hasn't focused on reintroduction in a while - I'd say since the prequels first showed up and reinvented the universe and caused a boom of very different content in the new setting. The sequel trilogy is built much more heavily on relating to what came before, and is arguably focused more towards the expectation that people are big fans than the cultivation of that fandom.

But then, that kind of introduction is something that isn't easy to do (especially in a Hollywood mindset, which tends to tread older properties as classics being "homaged" than truly bringing them to new audiences). Especially in a series where people are already so used to it - people have difficult separating what they already know from what they're getting into, which is probably why - say - MCU Spidey has so many conceptual differences from comics/mainline Spidey, because he's the only MCU character who's fully, deeply ingrained in the modern audience's minds.

But difficult or not, Disney's way of handling did not help, mind.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 28th 2019 at 1:05:44 AM

eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#108235: Aug 28th 2019 at 1:07:33 PM

[up][up] Holy crap! If Tony, Hank and Wakanda had shared their tech to the world, the battle with Thanos would've been a Curb-Stomp Battle in our favor.

Granted, if there was still an Earth to invade from all the infighting between nations.

Edited by eligram on Aug 28th 2019 at 4:09:54 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#108236: Aug 28th 2019 at 1:11:48 PM

Wakanda was just getting started with sharing when everything went down

I figure that Tony’s newest suits were inspired by Wakandan nanotechnology

Hank is too paranoid to share his tech and Tony has such a crippling responsibility slash guilt complex that he’d share his tech but only if he retained control over all of it.

Maybe things will be different after the wake up that was Infinity War and Endgame

Edited by Bocaj on Aug 28th 2019 at 4:13:00 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#108237: Aug 28th 2019 at 1:13:15 PM

And can you blame them? I mean, Hydra, A.I.M, supervillains, etc, etc.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#108238: Aug 28th 2019 at 1:17:28 PM

It's fun how there are actually good, well established reasons for all these people not to work together, but failing to work together probably resulted in them failing the first time.

Like, an Iron Man-style suit with Pym Particle tech would be staggeringly powerful. One with Wakandan kinetic absorption would be practically unstoppable. A Giant (Wo)Man with Wakandan kinetic absorption could probably destroy a city, maybe more, let alone Thanos.

One with all three is the kind of thing only supervillains tend to get their hands on.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#108239: Aug 28th 2019 at 1:21:17 PM

It’s also possible that you couldn’t get all these things to work nicely with each other

The Iron Man, Ant Man, and Black Panther suits are very specialized for their respective roles

I assume there’s a reason behind iconic that even with using maybe Wakandan nanotech, the Iron Man suit is still bulky armor and not a catsuit

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#108240: Aug 28th 2019 at 1:22:30 PM

You could if the writer says you could. It's like a fictional alien species being able to have kids with humans. Or mixing different branches magics. Or how time travel works.

It could be possible, it could not be. But it's all uncharted territory, so it's on the writer to say no.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 28th 2019 at 1:24:51 AM

eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#108241: Aug 28th 2019 at 1:23:48 PM

Oh! I could see emperor Kang getting all of them plus the time machine from endgame in the future and decide to use it to conquer the past.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#108242: Aug 28th 2019 at 1:25:05 PM

Kang showing up with a suit that has everybody's powers - like, everybody's powers - would be broken as hell and I'd love it just because of sheer silliness.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 28th 2019 at 1:26:07 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#108243: Aug 28th 2019 at 1:29:33 PM

[up][up][up] Thats fair enough

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#108244: Aug 28th 2019 at 1:30:24 PM

I mean, the only quirky alien in the MCU is Mantis, and her power is not something I would call OP.

We just gonna ignore Groot, the Asgardians, the Kree, the Skrulls, etc, etc?

And by that I mean that if we're gonna go full MCU meets Star Wars, then since the Rebels tend to get all the non-human aliens joining up with them because the Empire are human supremacist dicks, then they'd get all the beings that actually have cool powers and abilities.

Edited by danime91 on Aug 28th 2019 at 1:30:35 AM

eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#108245: Aug 28th 2019 at 1:31:10 PM

Kang showing up with a suit that has everybody's powers - like, everybody's powers - would be broken as hell and I'd love it just because of sheer silliness.

Cap. Falcon: You have Ironman thrusters to fly!!! Was it necesary to put my wings in your arsenal too?.

Kang: Well, now that you put it that way....

EDIT: [up] You said quirky, and I took it as in quirky personality, which only Mantis fits. I would've added Groot, but he's basically the Chewbacca of the MCU.

Edited by eligram on Aug 28th 2019 at 4:42:34 AM

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#108246: Aug 28th 2019 at 3:11:34 PM

The MCU has much more potential for actually generating properties than Star Wars, IMO. With Star Wars, I think the biggest problem with spin-offs is it's tougher to actually do these side stories without them feeling repetitive.

While many of Marvel's films do follow the same formula, they're at least constantly introducing new heroes and villains to keep things fresh, while the Star Wars prequels....you had a young Han Solo movie (which, as mentioned, doesn't even star the actor most people who give a shit about Han actually like) and a movie about the guys who stole the plans for the Death Star. The latter worked but less people were interested in the former, and I think that's why putting the whole spin-off idea on ice for a bit was a smart move.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#108247: Aug 28th 2019 at 3:19:20 PM

Also the MCU was built on giving individual characters their own movies so when you get stuff like the Black Widow movie or WandaVision, it's perfectly normal.

This song needs more love.
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#108248: Aug 28th 2019 at 3:22:38 PM

Let me put it you this way as far as spinoffs and franchise potential -

The MCU’s biggest concern after Endgame wasn’t the possibility of old villains returning but new ones appearing. When has anyone outside of hardcore comic book fans cared about Kang The Conqueror? When Endgame’s time travel plot made him a possibility, that’s when. And that’s the genius of this film universe based on a comic universe. There are so many little corners of the universe to use, so many ideas, be it ones known to casual audiences like DOOM! or villains only the most hardcore of hardcore would know like Annhilus. I mean, The Black Knight is going to be a big deal. Think about how ludicrous that would have sounded even five years ago.

Star Wars is advertising on its poster that Palpatine is back...somehow, and that’s why you should care. Because this villain from the original trilogy has returned. And he returned presumably because the First Order went over so badly the original Big Bad, a guy who once proclaimed in Dark Empire that he was the Dark Side incarnate, was the only way to bring the trilogy to a satisfying conclusion. The potential outside of that group of people that is rather small, as is the desire to see further corners of that universe divorced from the main cast.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#108249: Aug 28th 2019 at 3:23:09 PM

The biggest advantage the MCU has is that it's a Fantasy Kitchen Sink. There's material for however many different genres of storytelling you want, which helps to keep it from feeling too samey. Most franchises are a lot more limited.

Star Wars, for instance, is always going to be an outer space sci-fi. You can't really do a Star Wars story about an order of wizards using time-travel sorcery to defend the world from Extradimensional Cthulhu.

James Bond is always going to be a suave super-spy movie. You can't make a Bond movie about a band of alien ruffians dogfighting a space terrorist's warship, then besting him through the power of dance.

The Lord of the Rings is always going to be high fantasy. You can't make a Lord of the Rings movie about orbital surveillance and assassination drones putting absolute authoritarian power into the hands of Literal Nazis.

Godzilla is always going to be about giant kaiju monsters fighting either us, each other, or both. You can't make a Godzilla movie about a handful of scientists and ex-cons pulling off a heist using size-changing super-tech.

Most franchises are limited to a particular genre and/or subject matter. The MCU isn't, and that flexibility is a huge contributor to why it's thrived as a cinematic universe.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 28th 2019 at 4:24:37 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#108250: Aug 28th 2019 at 3:51:28 PM

@Tobias Drake Star Wars is a bad example, as it's also sci-fantasy and also has quite a bit of versatility. You actually can have Wizards fighting Cthulhu in Star Wars (it already has Jedi, have 'em fight Cthulhu). You can also have it be a western, spy drama, etc if you need it to be.

To be fair, Star Wars is less versatile than the MCU for a few reasons. In particular, it's set in a constructed world and there's no central "planet". Part of what makes the MCU work is not just that it's bizarre, but that it's also mundane in some ways. It can be as fantastic or as mundane as you want it to be.

Leviticus 19:34

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