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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#108151: Aug 27th 2019 at 1:20:29 PM

That reminds me of a thing. There was some criticism of Thanos’ showing Dr Strange Titan before its destruction because the before image was kind of lifeless and empty

Which might make sense if he doesn’t consider the loss of the population to be the worst part of the tragedy, instead bemoaning the loss of the culture of the planet and it’s natural beauty. Which could make sense considering he’s also the guy whose first answer to any problem is “kill half of the people”

Preservation of life isn’t his priority. So he shows Strange the before picture and goes “look how nice and vibrant it was!” “What about the people?” “The what?”

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#108152: Aug 27th 2019 at 1:25:12 PM

[up][up]I think it's more like if you have humans who aren't from Earth. They're still humans but not Earthlings.

This song needs more love.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#108153: Aug 27th 2019 at 1:25:43 PM

It reminds me of a podcast I was listening to where they said Thanos' massacre of the human race must've been a godsend to introverts who no longer had to worry about large crowds whenever they want to go out and do something in public.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#108154: Aug 27th 2019 at 1:31:42 PM

“Whale populations might be rebounding and introverts feel better about being out in public. Silver lining, right?”

“Shut up, Steve”

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#108155: Aug 27th 2019 at 1:33:11 PM

Although I realize that this would be getting rid of "nuance", and Thanos already does plenty of things that show he's not a good guy, I kind of wish it was revealed that he wiped out Titan himself.

Basically, he'd start out as The Jor-El and then when no one would listen to him, he'd decide that the best thing to do would be to nuke the place from orbit before its "inevitable" decline.

Also, I find it quite amusing that in the comics, Thanos' species are Human Aliens and the fact that he looks like a giant raisin is some kind of genetic mutation.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#108156: Aug 27th 2019 at 1:56:56 PM

In fact, California Raisin Thanos was so bizarre that seeing her mutant baby made Thanos’ mom immediately go crazy and try to kill him claiming he was EVIL

Which possibly may have been a scarring experience

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#108157: Aug 27th 2019 at 3:03:03 PM

[up]x2 Yes, throw all of the villain's characterization out of the widow for no good reason other than make sure we know the main baddie is a bad man who's bad.

Y'know, because slaugthering an entire ship full of refugees clearly wasn't enough to establish that.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#108158: Aug 27th 2019 at 4:00:44 PM

I think the main criticism is less anything Thanos did, and more that no one tried to challenge his goals on a logical level (as opposed to a purely moral one).

No one said "Hang on, at best it's a stopgap measure. If there's really too many people what we need is long term population management, and if we can do that then we don't need to kill half the population in the first place."

Or alternatively reveal that the problems on Gamora's homeworld weren't really caused by overpopulation, but because a highly corrupt regime was in place that was utterly demolished by Thanos's assault. The government that rose up to replace it is, if nothing else, much better at not letting it's own population starve.

To make a comparison with Black Panther, Killmonger is responding to very legitimate problems created by Wakanda's isolationism and the movie makes that very clear. However the movie also portrays Killmongers as being logically flawed, and presents an alternative solution to the problem that lacks those flaws.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#108159: Aug 27th 2019 at 4:12:07 PM

I don't really know how you'd do that naturally. It's not like Thanos or any of his minions were open to debate and everyone else already knows his plan is nuts.

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Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#108160: Aug 27th 2019 at 4:20:06 PM

I mean, don't forget that neither Thanos nor Killmonger were really fighting for the exact causes they claimed to. Thanos just wanted to prove himself right to a bunch of dead people, and Killmonger just wanted the whole world to burn for the pain it caused him. Universal salvation and racial upheaval are just palatable excuses they tell themselves.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#108161: Aug 27th 2019 at 4:46:54 PM

How was Thanos going to get all the praise he was sure he was going to get, while living on an empty planet with no technology that basically nobody else but two people knew about.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Aug 27th 2019 at 4:47:19 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#108162: Aug 27th 2019 at 4:51:19 PM

Maybe he assumed nobody crashing through his window to kill him was a signifier of gratitude. Past!Thanos noticeably goes "ah you ungrateful shits" when the Avengers kill his past self.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#108163: Aug 27th 2019 at 5:01:22 PM

I don't really know how you'd do that naturally. It's not like Thanos or any of his minions were open to debate and everyone else already knows his plan is nuts.

By not acknowledging those logical flaws in any way, it kind of makes it feel like the filmakers believed that, at least in in terms of cold heartless logic, Thanos is completely right to wipe out half the universe.

And there were several opportunities to bring it up naturally in Infinity War. Doctor Strange had a conversation with Thanos which he could of brought up the logical faults of the plan. Or when Gamora first details Thanos's endgame, someone else present could of raised that logical objection.

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#108164: Aug 27th 2019 at 5:08:07 PM

[up][up][up][up]Still doesn't mean the problem they're talking about never existed. A wrong solution (and whatever motives you consider questionable) does not equal a wrong problem. Nobody ever tries to assert that the problem never existed.

Black Panther had it's antagonist try to solve the problem in a violent way and has it's protagonist end the movie by trying to solve the same problem in a peaceful way: Killmonger wanted to distribute advanced weapons while T'Challa took Wakanda from it's isolationism by the end. Killmonger's cause was never taken to be only smoke, the problem itself being fictional.

[up]x7 It's not really about Thanos being malevolent, it's about whether his "Necessary Evil" was ever that necessary.

Edited by fredhot16 on Aug 27th 2019 at 5:10:34 AM

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chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#108165: Aug 27th 2019 at 5:14:20 PM

Gamora: The entire time I knew Thanos, he only ever had one goal: To bring balance to the Universe by wiping out half of all life. He used to kill people planet by planet, massacre by massacre...
Thor: Would that actually work?
Groot: I am Groot.
Thor: Well, that answers all my questions. The tree is quite thorough in his counter-arguments.

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#108166: Aug 27th 2019 at 5:17:34 PM

At least he seemed to lay down some infrastructure for his non gauntlet mass murdering. He's actually worse with the gauntlet, he just kills without setting up anything.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#108167: Aug 27th 2019 at 6:08:38 PM

There was a Polyon article explaining what the "Hail Hydra" scene was about to those not in the know. One of the comments was funny and thought-provoking.

Aw man, I forgot this is another crazy alternate timeline that they don’t get into at all. What happens when 2012 Hydra thinks that Cap is one of them? 2023 Cap just waltzes in, makes this huge change, then beams out. I wonder if we’ll find out what happened next?

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#108168: Aug 27th 2019 at 6:14:37 PM

I really, really hope that if What If? doesn't cover the Endgame created alternate timelines that there's a tie-in comic or something released that does. Because there's tons of potential here.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#108169: Aug 27th 2019 at 6:16:49 PM

...I would watch that movie.

I'm just picturing Cap, like, walking into S.H.I.E.L.D. the next day and then Sitwell's just like, "Hey Cap, there you are. Been looking all over for you. Strucker needs to see us for a, uh, debriefing. Hail Hydra."

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#108170: Aug 27th 2019 at 6:19:01 PM

His face though. The expression work. It would be glorious.

Edited by Bocaj on Aug 27th 2019 at 9:19:19 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#108171: Aug 27th 2019 at 6:19:29 PM

wild mass guessThe future changed in the timeline where present Hawkeye stole his kids's baseball glove. Not finding the glove set off his son's temper, revealing his mega destroyer powers. Powers so great they were visible from orbit, scaring Thanos too much to ever come to Earth.wild mass guess

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Aug 27th 2019 at 6:20:28 AM

Akirakan Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#108172: Aug 27th 2019 at 6:44:14 PM

The last thing the real Cap reported was seeing Loki, thinking that future Cap was him. They know he escaped, so perhaps they could get around that and simply going "Loki tricked us".

I also imagine some Hydra higher-ups do know that Cap isn't a member, so probably they just go with that.

Edited by Akirakan on Aug 27th 2019 at 6:44:35 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#108173: Aug 27th 2019 at 6:49:19 PM

Yeah, but with that assumption, they think that Loki knows (and cares) about HYDRA's presence within SHIELD. That's still kind of weird.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#108174: Aug 27th 2019 at 7:09:54 PM

It'd be hilarious if the Loki series had an episode where he has to deal with HYDRA because of these time travel shenanigans, and even he's confused about what the hell happened.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#108175: Aug 27th 2019 at 9:13:42 PM

This is why I hate Time Travel.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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