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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#108076: Aug 26th 2019 at 4:50:58 PM

Again, the scene with a young Erik at a concentration camp is literally the first scene in the entire film franchise.

A lot of parents in the audience must've felt awkward when they brought their kids to the film back in 2000, huh? If they didn't know much about the X-Men, how surprised would they have been to see a superhero movie start in the middle of the Holocaust?

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#108077: Aug 26th 2019 at 5:16:55 PM

On the other hand, it was an extremely effective scene for what it was, and why I prefer First Class to the other films.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#108078: Aug 26th 2019 at 5:19:44 PM

First Class is one of the better movies even if it does waste some characters like Darwin.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#108079: Aug 26th 2019 at 5:30:24 PM

The only Xmen films I've ever watched are Last Stand and Xmen 2 and bits of 1

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#108080: Aug 26th 2019 at 6:06:14 PM

The best X-Men movies in my opinion, weirdly enough, have nothing to do with the X-Men. Logan and the two Deadpool movies are a cut above the rest.

The legend has returned.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#108081: Aug 26th 2019 at 6:09:03 PM

I'm frankly surprised there's so much debate over Magneto's backstory. It's not that hard to keep his holocaust backstory in a modern setting, no moreso than making sure Cap and Bucky were still tied to World War 2 and not Vietnam or the Iraq War.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#108082: Aug 26th 2019 at 6:17:27 PM

Well, Magneto doesn’t usually get frozen in the Arctic.

Maybe he has a secondary mutation that slows aging or something, I dunno.

Oh God! Natural light!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#108083: Aug 26th 2019 at 6:18:14 PM

Seriously there are many ways to justify this.

It genuinely doesn't require much if any thought.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 26th 2019 at 6:19:17 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#108084: Aug 26th 2019 at 6:47:57 PM

You could also just make him a Latverian kid who went through a Holocaust-with-the-serial-numbers-filed-off genocide that country had a few decades back.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#108085: Aug 26th 2019 at 6:49:33 PM

It has to be the Holocaust though. No Holocaust, no Magneto.

No ifs and's or buts.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 26th 2019 at 6:50:42 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#108086: Aug 26th 2019 at 6:52:53 PM

X-Men: Evolution had him use the Rebirth machine to extend his life.

Though in that version, it was harmful to normal humans but not to mutants.

And we already conveniently have that machine in this universe. Maybe Eric managed to pinch some info about it at some point and modify it to extend his lifespan somehow. Be another good way to tie the universe together.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#108087: Aug 26th 2019 at 6:53:47 PM

As a Jew, I agree that Magneto's backstory has to involve the literal Holocaust, ESPECIALLY in the current political climate. It would be super easy to justify his age by just having him live longer, whether as a secondary mutation for Magneto alone or as a general thing all mutants have (and Wolverine's healing factor makes his long life more extreme than normal).

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#108088: Aug 26th 2019 at 6:54:00 PM

Well, Magneto doesn’t usually get frozen in the Arctic.

No, the comics did an even better explanation. He was turned into a baby and then reaged him to his "physical prime" rather than his actual age. It was commented in the Claremont issues that Magneto was now stronger and more powerful than he'd been in years.

Edited by comicwriter on Aug 26th 2019 at 7:19:35 AM

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#108089: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:20:27 PM

I think the simplest way to retain the Holocaught survivor backstory is for him to have been in cryosleep for most of the intervening years. The Winter Soldier established that the technology has been around since at least shortly after WW 2.

My suggestion would be that Hydra put him on ice sometime after WW 2 until they could figure out a way to control his powers, which they never did. Flashforward to after the fall of Hydra and with no one maintaining his cryopod, it eventually turns off on it's own and he emerges.note 

Since then he's been laying low, getting acclimated to the modern world, and searching for other mutants. By the time he actually appears, he will have already gathered a small group of followers.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#108090: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:27:48 PM

So, I was re-watching Carol's fight with Thanos again.

Since there was a recent comment that Thor was as strong as he's ever been in Endgame, I was finally able to accept that Carol is stronger than him since he needed to not only dual wield Stormbreaker and Mjolnir alongside Cap and Tony to fight Thanos while she just took him without anything but the fact that she's Captain fucking Marvel...

....but then I really looked at the scene where she tanks the headbutt, or rather the events leading up to it.

Thanos knocks her away, puts on the gauntlet, and as there usually is when it's put on, there's a visible output of energy....and then Carol grabs the gauntlet.

Carol, who absorbs energy, grabs a device that is now outputting a very large amount of energy.

Carol, who gets stronger from absorbing energy, grabs a device that is probably putting out more energy (even if passively) than anything she's ever taken in before.

And that's when Thanos tries to use his head and gets nothing to show for it but as dirty look.

....are y'all seeing my point here? Is she powerful? Hell yeah! There's no doubt of that, but I think she was absorbing the energy coming from the gauntlet when Thanos put it on and that's why she could just shrug off his attack.

So, once again, I debate if she's really that far ahead of Thor.

I will say this much: any army that has both of them is pretty much unstoppable.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#108091: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:34:06 PM

I think the strongest hero characters in the MCU at the moment are Captain Marvel and Scarlet Witch, maybe with Celestial Energy Starlord thrown in with the asterisk that he shouldn't be able to tap into that power ever again. After them is Thor, Hulk, and maybe Giant-Man, but that's a pretty hard "maybe".

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#108092: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:40:48 PM

Oh right.

I keep forgetting about Wanda.

Guess being powered directly by a stone just makes you a Game-Breaker.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#108093: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:56:46 PM

It is worth remembering that Captain Marvel and Scarlet Witch are the only two characters ever shown directly overpowering Thanos (Scarlet Witch even did so in both Infinity War and Endgame). Even Thor and Hulk briefly had moments of pushing against him 1-on-1, and Thanos was stronger than both of them.

Also, Scarlet Witch, Thanos, and Black Panther are the only characters to ever damage Vibranium without melting it, and Black Panther did so using Vibranium, so he doesn't count.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#108094: Aug 26th 2019 at 8:02:17 PM

I choose to interpret the comment from the Russos about Thor being "stronger than ever" as simply him being free from all doubts and fears in a long time, and that at his actual, physical prime at Infinity War would be roughly a match (not necessarily stronger or weaker, but in the same general league) as Capt Marvel, but now even the boost from Quebra-Tormentanote can only make him perform about as well as back in the first two Phases.

Because I love Fa Thor, with all of my heart, but I refuse to believe this piece of melted ice-cream is stronger than the greatest Hunk of the MCU.

I just refuse, okay? Five years of pure neglect would take a toll on anyone, be it god, human or tree.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#108095: Aug 26th 2019 at 8:02:32 PM

Giant-Man was able to knock a Leviathan down with seemingly less effort than Thor or Hulk in the first Avengers movie.

I think either of those two could beat him up but all that extra mass is worth its weight in stopping power.

[up] This is a reality objection so probably not relevant but hunk Thor has show-off muscles which are generally from dehydration and not really the strongest kind of muscles.

Edited by Bocaj on Aug 26th 2019 at 11:04:03 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#108096: Aug 26th 2019 at 8:08:19 PM

Carol absorbs energy in the comics but it’s never been said she does that in the films. Given that her origin film centers around her accepting her own power rather than the lie that it was given to her, the thematic implication is that it’s entirely her own power being fueled from her body.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#108097: Aug 26th 2019 at 8:11:17 PM

[up]x2 I know, just not really sure if it is relevant considering that's pretty literally how the body of every male lead in the MCU looks.

Well, everyone except the Hulk.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#108098: Aug 26th 2019 at 8:11:27 PM

She's implied to be absorbing energy in her movie when she powers up the lights start to flicker

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#108099: Aug 26th 2019 at 8:13:06 PM

According by our standards on Super Weight, the strongest heroes in the MCU tend to be around Type 5 or World Weights. These include Thor, Carol, Wanda, and Strange. Quill used to be this weight until Ego died.

Now, it also claims Stormbreaker is a Type 6 or Cosmic Weight, on the basis that it overpowered Thanos with the full Infinity Gauntlet. While that would make Thor the strongest hero, I know that feat is up to interpretation. I believe the Russos claimed that Thanos was just taken off-guard and wasn't using the Gauntlet's full power at that moment.

Of course by that standards, Tony and Bruce would've been the strongest heroes at any point since they wielded the Infinity Gauntlet as well. I know people wouldn't count the Gauntlet as part of their regular arsenal, but there you go.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#108100: Aug 26th 2019 at 8:15:10 PM

Or she’s just overpowering the ship’s lights, not absorbing them.


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