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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#107976: Aug 25th 2019 at 8:40:32 PM

Yeah. Mags is now way too old at this point.
This has been an issue for a while, since his backstory is explicitly tied to the Holocaust. In the Marvel Universe, they got around it by turning him into a baby and then re-aging him into an adult (...comics!), but that probably won't work in the movies.

I think the simplest solution is actually the answer: mutants often have a "secondary mutation." Magneto's main mutation is being the master of magnetism, but they can have his secondary mutation be "ages slowly."

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#107977: Aug 25th 2019 at 8:42:08 PM

Making him their dad was a pointless retcon in the first place done in part because John Byrne decided that since Pietro and Mags had similar hair they had to be related.

He had a real hair thing because he did the same thing with Sandman and Norman Osborn.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#107978: Aug 25th 2019 at 8:42:19 PM

Is it possible to modernize Magneto by making his childhood plight something more modern, such as for example the Berlin Wall?

The legend has returned.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#107979: Aug 25th 2019 at 8:42:46 PM

And quite a few secondary mutations have little to do with their primary ones.

Look at Emma and her Diamond form. What does it have to do with her Telepathy?

Jack shit, that's what.

I can dig it.

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#107980: Aug 25th 2019 at 8:43:52 PM

[up][up][up] Making them empowered due to experiments by the High Evolutionary was even more pointless.

It changes way more things than just who their daddy is.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 25th 2019 at 8:44:03 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#107981: Aug 25th 2019 at 8:44:08 PM

And that happened because Grant Morrison wanted to use Colossus for stories that he never actually even did but Colossus was dead and Quesada was in the 'dead is dead' mood so he just decided that Emma Frost can turn to diamond now.

A lot of things happen for dumb reasons and sometimes become beloved.

[up] As soon as they had a backstory, the High Evolutionary was always involved in it. And Wanda's powers, as soon as they had a backstory, were always more than just a mutant power. Everything old is new again, or whatever.

Edited by Bocaj on Aug 25th 2019 at 11:45:08 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#107982: Aug 25th 2019 at 8:46:00 PM

...Oh that's diamond?

Literally this entire time I thought she was turning into ice. Cuz Frost.

This song needs more love.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#107983: Aug 25th 2019 at 8:46:51 PM

She does have a heavy association with ice. She keeps taking over Iceman's body and doing his powers better than him and giving him a sad.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#107984: Aug 25th 2019 at 8:54:59 PM

Given the way names in superhero comics work, I was genuinely surprised when I first read about Emma and realized her powers had nothing to do with ice.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#107985: Aug 25th 2019 at 9:01:42 PM

Is it possible to modernize Magneto by making his childhood plight something more modern, such as for example the Berlin Wall?
Not really — Magneto is heavily attached to the Holocaust and is one of the few explicitly Jewish characters in comics. (Also, the Berlin Wall wasn't a genocide so...not sure how it would fit.) But trying to attach Magneto to any real world event would come with the same problems: eventually, as time moved forward, you would either have to hire older and older actors or move the backstory up and up.

Having Magneto basically being extremely long-lived is much easier and keeps the Holocaust aspect. (Also, reminding people about the Holocaust and what led up to it isn't exactly a bad thing.)

Edited by alliterator on Aug 25th 2019 at 9:01:52 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#107986: Aug 25th 2019 at 9:11:26 PM

I want to see Marvel Studios use the antihero X-Man aspect of Magneto. Dude hasn't been a straight villain in years, and presenting him in that role would keep him from feeling like a stale retread of the FOX movies.

In the comics, Magneto is basically Wolverine with pathos.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#107987: Aug 25th 2019 at 9:14:26 PM

Not just years, well over a decade.

Hell Magneto is pretty much a father figure to Cyclops at this point.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#107988: Aug 25th 2019 at 9:15:44 PM

"Maybe I'm so emotionally messed up because all of my father figures are ass"
"How could you say that, son?"
"YOU ABANDONED ME TO BE A SPACE PIRATE"
"I was really sad about your mom dying though."

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#107989: Aug 25th 2019 at 9:15:48 PM

Updating Magneto's backstory is a tricky endeavor because of how much of it was tied into the Holocaust. Updating Iron Man's was easy, just pick the latest war America was in and you're good. But we haven't had something on the scale of the mass genocide the Nazis enforced during World War II. There have been plenty of genocides since then, but nothing to that scale has targeted towards the Jewish people post-WWII.

There are ways I can see them going about this for the MCU. The easiest is to not acknowledge it at all. Don't bring up the Holocaust, no Nazis, nothing. Magneto's just been a victim of persecution in the past, but the specifics are left vague. The second option, as already stated, is to give Magneto secondary powers that slow down his aging. If they want to remain faithful to the character's history, this option is the most likely. Third option is to Race Lift Magneto into a victim of a different genocide. That could be pretty controversial, and you'd lose Magneto's Jewish roots, which an entirely different can of worms. The fourth option is to create a fictional genocide that specifically targeted mutants in the past, explaining Erik's motives and why you haven't seen mutants until this point. That... also could be problematic and could easily be handled badly in the wrong hands.

I also wonder how far Disney would go to portray the horrors of the Holocaust if they explore Erik's backstory in any significant depth. Say what you will about the Fox films, but they didn't shy away from that part of the story. Erik being Holocaust survivor plays a significant role to his character and the main themes of the franchise. There's a reason the very first scene in the first movie was Erik using his powers for the first time at a concentration camp. If the films were made by Disney, would they have taken that chance? I'm not entirely sure, but we'll see what the future holds...

Edited by chasemaddigan on Aug 25th 2019 at 12:17:03 PM

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#107990: Aug 25th 2019 at 9:21:45 PM

I'm wondering if it might not just be beneficial to have longer lifespans be a Mutant thing in general. That way you can keep Magneto's backstory and have he and Xavier be around the same age.

This song needs more love.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#107991: Aug 25th 2019 at 9:28:33 PM

I want to give Xavier a break. He was basically the main character of Fox's reboot trilogy. Despite being the titular X in the X-Men, there have been many incarnations of the series that didn't involve him. In the comics, Charles Xavier was the man who got the ball rolling, and he does still turn up from time to time as either a voice of wisdom or to cause trouble.

But that ball's been rolling just fine on its own for a long time, and Xavier often winds up estranged from the cause he founded. Usually he's either dead or everyone's pissed off at him about one flagrantly unethical use of his powers or another. Point is, the ever-present adaptation dynamic where Xavier is the Big Good shimmering leader that all the X-Men revere and worship for his undying wisdom and grace hasn't actually been a thing in the comics for a very long time either.

But while the comics have been doing it forever, the adaptations have basically never explored the idea of the X-Men without Xavier.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 25th 2019 at 10:31:12 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#107992: Aug 25th 2019 at 9:30:49 PM

It makes it ironic how the constantly Demoted to Extra Cyclops is probably the biggest figure in the X-Men's mythology & has been so for a loooooong time.

Even when he was dead his name & influence could still be felt by everyone.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 25th 2019 at 9:31:37 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#107993: Aug 25th 2019 at 9:35:22 PM

Definitely. Cyclops is basically the X-Men's Captain America.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#107995: Aug 25th 2019 at 9:51:00 PM

XD That second panel.

I started reading comics in the early 00's, at which point in time the Avengers were basically the definitive peacekeeping force on the planet Earth. That's how the comics presented them. You had super-teams here and there, you especially had various X-Men units doing mutant stuff, but the number one super-team was the Avengers. They were basically Marvel's Justice League.

So I never really got it, but I've heard this exact sentiment from older readers. It's sort of a generational thing. Either you know the Avengers as THE superhero force, or you know them as that one team-up comic you didn't read 'cause you were reading Defenders and Champions and X-Men and New Warriors and....

Earth's Mightiest Heroes (Except For All The Other Heroes)

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 25th 2019 at 10:52:41 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#107996: Aug 25th 2019 at 9:52:23 PM

Hopefully, our boy Slim will get his day.

I mean, for all it's flaws, I'd say Apocalypse and even Dark Phoenix treated him better than the original trilogy did.

Sad that the very first X-man is taking so many hits in pop culture.

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#107997: Aug 25th 2019 at 9:58:09 PM

I've been reading a lot of olde Avengers and its actually got a lot of good points.

It went through a dark period in the 90s because X-Men was burning the industry to the ground. But who wasn't? The 90s were bad to a lot of properties.

And unlike X-Men, New Warriors, and Defenders, Avengers lasted unbroken, uncancelled until Bendis blew it up in issue 500 and even then it was immediately rebooted as New Avengers. Also, nobody was really reading the Champions. Don't lie to me.

Edited by Bocaj on Aug 25th 2019 at 12:58:36 PM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#107998: Aug 25th 2019 at 10:03:37 PM

Also, nobody was really reading the Champions. Don't lie to me.
The Champions in a nutshell.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#107999: Aug 25th 2019 at 10:07:15 PM

Just make Cyke the one focused on the job among the dysfunctional bunch doing dumb stuff. There is always the Straight Man role for him.

Wake me up at your own risk.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#108000: Aug 25th 2019 at 10:08:08 PM

Regarding Magneto, why can't you just keep him on ice to get around the age issue?

We see that HYDRA had cryopreservation to keep the Winter Soldier fresh. Who's to say a HYDRA Nazi didn't take notice of Magneto's powers and decide to freeze him until they could be understood and utilized for HYDRA's gain?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

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