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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#107551: Aug 23rd 2019 at 10:14:51 AM

[up] I never heard of any Executive Meddling on Spider-Man 2. All I remember was that there was a period where Sony wanted to replace Tobey Maguire after he injured himself doing a stunt. Nothing to the level of Spider-Man 3 or The Amazing Spider-Man Series. I'd like to hear what happened with the second film.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#107552: Aug 23rd 2019 at 10:15:45 AM

I like all three Tobey movies, but yeah, MCU!Spidey is the best live-action version of the character and losing will be quite a pisser.

ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#107553: Aug 23rd 2019 at 10:32:15 AM

IIRC Sony wanted the Spiderfilms on a very TIGHT timeline with production on 2 started before everybody was ready for it, and three they were insisting on the intro of Venom over the creative teams objections, basically Sony wanted more 'things' added to the films. Basically falling into the same trap as the later Batfilms (too many villians! too many plot threads!) IIRC the reason why everybody walked is they were flat out exhausted after wrapping 3 and Sony was already trying to get them to commit to 4 and start filming within the YEAR.

You can see this in the reboot where they were planning on 1-2 Spiderfilms a YEAR featuring every possible and viable Spider Charter, Sony wants to churn these out like Penny Candy it seems

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#107554: Aug 23rd 2019 at 10:42:16 AM

You can see this in the reboot where they were planning on 1-2 Spiderfilms a YEAR featuring every possible and viable Spider Charter, Sony wants to churn these out like Penny Candy it seems

[Everyone dislikes that.]

Really, it's like they don't believe in long term successes. It always has to be short term...sad

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#107555: Aug 23rd 2019 at 11:32:28 AM

So.

I might actually end up hating both sides if what the Washington Post says it's true.

Namely how apparently it's Disney choosing to walk away.

Disney, though, seems determined to walk away. Executives have taken the position they don’t need firsthand control of every last property in their stable. Of course, it’s not clear they are doing this happily — or would do so in the future. After all, there was that previous case of X-Men and Fox. In that instance, Disney let its licensing studio do as it pleased. Then it bought the entire company.

That adds up with what we already know. Namely that Disney didn't want Feige working on Spider-Man anymore.

With the Fox acquisition, Disney has a bunch of new toys in their toybox - one of which is grand enough to warrant dozens of movies in its own right. They basically just reacquired, like, a third of the Marvel Universe for filmmaking. There is a lot to work with there.

Spider-Man was a big name acquisition when FOX's properties were still untouchable and the MCU had to be driven exclusively by B- and C-list characters. But now it doesn't really make as much financial sense to be making Spider-Man movies for Sony at almost no gain, just to be able to put him in their own films.

Disney's moved from all their most famous and beloved properties being licensed out to it being just Spider-Man. They have everything but Spider-Man. They've moved from being able to make films about "Some obscure parts of the Marvel Universe you may not have heard of" to being able to make films about "The complete and total Marvel Universe in its entirety (except Spider-Man)".

So I can totally see why, from their perspective, it makes good business sense to just cut the tie and let Spidey be the odd property out; the one thing, out of all the million things in their library, that they're not making billion-dollar movies about. Disney doesn't need Spider-Man anymore. And frankly, it's not like he's really contributed that much to the crossover films he has shown up in.

The only property that's really benefit from Spidey's presence in the MCU is the Spider-Man franchise itself, which got a couple of pretty incredible movies out of it. Which, from Disney's perspective, really just means that Disney's making some great movies for Sony at little actual gain to Disney. But Disney's also making some great movies for Disney at significant actual gain to Disney. So. Like. Screw that? It's not Disney's job to make Sony's movies good.

So. Yeah. It's easy to see why Disney wanted a bigger slice of the pie. But, as I noted before, it's also easy to see why Sony doesn't want Disney to have that bigger slice 'cause if they're just going to take in the same kind of money the get from making their own Spider-Man movies, then why not just make their own Spider-Man movies?

Deals like this almost never happen. This is why. Either it's unfair to Disney, or there's no financial incentive for Sony to agree. There's not really a middle ground. And Disney is no longer desperate enough for big-name A-list material to accept an unfair agreement.

There isn't a bad guy in all this. It's just business.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 23rd 2019 at 12:35:21 PM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#107556: Aug 23rd 2019 at 11:46:04 AM

Either way, the fans are screwed regardless.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#107557: Aug 23rd 2019 at 11:47:36 AM

It's like somebody wished for the X-Men to join the MCU using a Monkey's Paw. You got what you wished for, it just led to Disney gaining one step towards becoming a monopoly, the cancellation of many interesting projects over at Fox, and Spider-Man leaving the MCU.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#107558: Aug 23rd 2019 at 12:04:39 PM

4 seconds of the Black Widow footage from D23.

Also the upcoming Marvel rides section at Disneyland is going to be called Avengers Campus.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Aug 23rd 2019 at 12:12:14 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#107559: Aug 23rd 2019 at 12:13:10 PM

Fine then.

Burn Disney burn (na na naaa! na na na na naaaa!)

Glad I know who to hate.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#107560: Aug 23rd 2019 at 1:02:06 PM

The ideal situation for me would be Marvel having all their characters and being independent from Disney, Sony, and Universal.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#107561: Aug 23rd 2019 at 1:05:30 PM

Oh yeah, did Marvel gain the rights to Namor back or does Universal still own them?

Also, there's that whole wonky deal with the Hulk that prevents them from making solo Hulk movies. Is that still a thing?

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#107562: Aug 23rd 2019 at 1:05:36 PM

RE: TobiasDrake:

So. The MCU will just forget Spidey ever existed and be fine with people (especially kids) asking "what about Spider-Man?"

Meanwhile, Sony gets to have their own Spider-Man, but he inevitably won't be the one who...

  • fought The Falcon and Winter Soldier in an airport and came up with a plan to beat Giant-Man.
  • saved Tony's stuff from the Vulture.
  • fought Thanos with Iron Man, Doctor Strange, and 3 of the Guardians of the Galaxy.
  • got turned into dust by Thanos.
  • became the motivation for why Tony joined in the Time Heist.
  • fought aliens with instant kill mode, got to fly around with Mjolnir, got surrounded by superhero ladies in the rematch against Thanos, and attended Tony's funeral.
  • fought Mysterio (and subsequently got framed and outed by Mysterio).

No, when Sony reboots him, he'll be back to being a social outcast who accidentally gets his beloved uncle killed, who doesn't know any other superheroes, and whatever Sony did before the MCU thing. Because that's what Sony thinks we want to see that again at this point.

...

What else can I say but...

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Aug 23rd 2019 at 4:11:20 AM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#107563: Aug 23rd 2019 at 1:11:46 PM

I think you guys are jumping the gun a bit.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#107564: Aug 23rd 2019 at 1:13:10 PM

[up][up] Pretty much, yeah. The MCU will move on and spend the next decade making thirty more billion-dollar films that aren't about Spider-Man, and they'll all be critically successful and people will talk about them for ages.

And Sony will be off presumably doing the same thing DC does: making okay superhero films that everyone on the internet hates and critics deplore, but that make a lot of money at the box office anyway.

Both companies will survive just fine, people will move on, and the world will continue to turn.

The ideal situation for me would be Marvel having all their characters and being independent from Disney, Sony, and Universal.

And never making any movies because they're bankrupt?

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 23rd 2019 at 2:16:06 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#107565: Aug 23rd 2019 at 1:15:50 PM

[up][up] Eh, you're right.

I'm just p*issed at the possibility that Marvel/Disney would probably just toss Spidey under the bus and we'll be stuck with Sony having Spidey who, let's be honest, will just half-ass everything because they think it won't matter if it's good or not so long as they get money.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Aug 23rd 2019 at 4:16:04 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#107566: Aug 23rd 2019 at 1:15:58 PM

Wait if Sony takes all of the shitty movies away from DC leaving them only good movies then I’d be pretty okay with that.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LucyVega23 from Mexico Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#107567: Aug 23rd 2019 at 1:17:24 PM

I really want to be optimistic and hoping they'll gonna figure it out to keep Spider-Man in the MCU. If they re-hired James Gunn, they can keep him as well.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#107568: Aug 23rd 2019 at 1:18:08 PM

[up][up] I think he means letting them be subpar like Batman v Superman, Suicide Squad, and Justice League.

[up] Oh god, me too. I just want some update saying, "Hey everyone! Spider-Man's here to stay in the MCU!"

Please don't do this to us, God.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Aug 23rd 2019 at 4:20:08 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#107569: Aug 23rd 2019 at 1:18:58 PM

> Wait if Sony takes all of the shitty movies away from DC leaving them only good movies then I’d be pretty okay with that.

but then they won't have any movies!

-badum tish-

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#107570: Aug 23rd 2019 at 1:19:07 PM

I'm still sort of suspicious of the idea that they ever really fired James Gunn at all but that's neither here nor there.

Edited by LordVatek on Aug 23rd 2019 at 4:28:15 AM

This song needs more love.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#107571: Aug 23rd 2019 at 1:19:59 PM

No they definitely fired him then unfired him,you dont muck about with stuff like that for cheap publicity stunts

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#107572: Aug 23rd 2019 at 1:20:38 PM

And never making any movies because they're bankrupt?

Why would they still be bankrupt if they split from Disney now?

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Aug 23rd 2019 at 1:20:55 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#107573: Aug 23rd 2019 at 1:22:38 PM

[up][up][up][up] Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam, that’s at least 3 decent ones.

Here’s hoping Joker continues the streak.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#107574: Aug 23rd 2019 at 1:24:42 PM

[up][up]The sale of the Spider-Man rights to Columbia Pictures/Sony gave Marvel Comics a second wind after bankruptcy following The Great Comics Crash Of 1996.

Eh, my ideal would be public domain laws be relaxed to what they used to be and then anybody gets to make Spider-Man stories, instead of having to settle for ancient stuff from 1923.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Aug 23rd 2019 at 1:25:45 AM

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#107575: Aug 23rd 2019 at 1:28:04 PM

[up]x4 I think they "fired" him but they always had every intention of rehiring him once people stopped talking about his old tweets.

Edited by LordVatek on Aug 23rd 2019 at 4:28:25 AM

This song needs more love.

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