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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#107401: Aug 22nd 2019 at 8:49:13 AM

Wait, Sony gets paid royalties? Am I understanding that part correctly?
Kind of. Disney pays $35 million per film to Sony for the merchandising rights, except if the film makes over $750 million, then that amount is reduced (how much we don't know). And that was after a one-time payment of $175 million.

Kakuzan Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to. from Knock knock, open up the door, it's real. Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to.
#107402: Aug 22nd 2019 at 8:55:23 AM

[up] Okay, thanks for clarifying that for me.

Don't catch you slippin' now.
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#107403: Aug 22nd 2019 at 9:10:48 AM

RE: Marvel's proposed 70-30 sharing:

Here's how the numbers would work if that deal was in place for Far From Home (on its simplest terms by the way, as there is plenty of smaller details in contracts that could shake this final number up). The budget for Far From Home was $160 million, and you often double that for advertising costs. If you double it that number becomes $320 million. Subtracting $320 from the box office pull of 1,110,357,640 billion leaves us with $790,357,640, and a 30% cut of that is $237,107,292 million for Marvel and the rest for Sony ($553,250,348).

...Hey, Sony?

You realize that YOU get to be the one with more money, right?

Jesus H. Christ, Sony is looking pettier and more immature by the minute, aren't they?!

Just gives me more reason to stick with Marvel!

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#107404: Aug 22nd 2019 at 9:12:13 AM

The problem, of course, is that they loved the original deal, where they kept almost all of the profits.

ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#107405: Aug 22nd 2019 at 9:16:13 AM

...And did zippo of the work, anybody is going to see that eventually Disney will be asking for more money since they are doing more work and the films are crazy successful. Sony should have been expecting this and prepared for it!

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#107406: Aug 22nd 2019 at 9:18:28 AM

[up][up] But the new deal is laid out so that Sony STILL gets to be the one with more money!

Marvel made a billion dollar movie and made Mysterio a seriously credible, pee-in-pants-inducing, evil villain who gets the drop on Spidey more than once!

It's looking more and more fair for Marvel to feel like they earned some extra loot.

Sony's idiocy is so huge now, that I'm hearing this in my head:

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Aug 22nd 2019 at 12:29:09 PM

BattleRaizer from Realm of Khorne Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#107408: Aug 22nd 2019 at 9:31:22 AM

From a business stand point, what does Sony gain by accepting that deal compare to keeping the old deal? They don't mind footing the bill if they the one who benefit the most from the investment.

E.T technically is a Isekai movie
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#107409: Aug 22nd 2019 at 9:38:48 AM

Yep, now I'm definitely on Disney's side of the argument. Sony's being quite unreasonable.

The legend has returned.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#107410: Aug 22nd 2019 at 9:57:14 AM

I wouldn't call it unreasonable, just potentially overconfident. Remember, it's not that they're planning to stop making Spider-Man movies; they're just planning to make their own without Marvel Studios' assistance. If the money brought in from their independently made Spider-Man movies is at least 70% of what Marvel Studios' Spider-Man movies bring in, then doing that is the only rational move for them.

The question is whether they can actually manage to do 70% as well as the films Marvel Studios would make.

ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#107411: Aug 22nd 2019 at 10:04:01 AM

Agree with the overconfidence, they in some way think they can just continue with the movies as is that everybody will just go along and the resulting movie will still be a billion dollar block buster.

Disney/Marvel has something that Sony does not, Public Confidence, most people see that Red and While "Marvel Studios" logo and KNOW they will be seeing a quality film that is worth the ticket price, we will be seeing characters and locations they have spent the last 10 years building and developing. A Movie people will go out of their way to see opening weekend if possible.

Sony doesn't have that, they see the Sony Pictures Logo and feel that they are going to roll the dice that they would rather wait a week or so past opening to verify with friends if its worth it, they remember the failures of previous spider films and wonder if they will get burned again here.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#107412: Aug 22nd 2019 at 10:07:07 AM

I'll just remind people that Into the Spider-Verse didn't do very well in its opening weekend, but had pretty long legs due to Word of Mouth being so good.

BattleRaizer from Realm of Khorne Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#107413: Aug 22nd 2019 at 10:10:33 AM

Would be funny if Sony go and make their own Spiderman movie and it turn out to be the best Spiderman movie ever.

E.T technically is a Isekai movie
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#107414: Aug 22nd 2019 at 10:11:58 AM

They already did that.

The legend has returned.
Kakuzan Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to. from Knock knock, open up the door, it's real. Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to.
#107415: Aug 22nd 2019 at 10:13:59 AM

And while it may be my favorite superhero movie, I think people have the tendency to forget that Spiderverse wasn't a gigantic success compared to the other Spider-Man movies.

Edited by Kakuzan on Aug 22nd 2019 at 1:14:14 PM

Don't catch you slippin' now.
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#107416: Aug 22nd 2019 at 10:18:42 AM

I wouldn't have minded if Into the Spider-Verse was the one to overtake Avatar as the highest-grossing movie ever, but that's beside the point.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#107417: Aug 22nd 2019 at 10:19:08 AM

And now she's claiming Sony or someone should keep Marvel and Disney on a leash? Hypocrite.

Yes. How dare she be critical of rampant unchecked monopoly-building. The fact that some are getting this mad at her over frickin' Spider-Man of all things is amusing.

Look, I've got no love for the lady either, but the people getting hyper defensive of the goddamn Disney corporation is more than a little concerning.

Edited by comicwriter on Aug 22nd 2019 at 10:23:56 AM

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#107418: Aug 22nd 2019 at 10:21:28 AM

Didn't ITSV get screwed by the Animation Age Ghetto though?

"Yup. That tasted purple."
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#107419: Aug 22nd 2019 at 10:22:49 AM

Venom creator Todd McFarlane is pretty uncertain about the whole thing.

Though it sounds like he's going on outdated info since Marvel's supposed 10% was actually 5% and the proposed 50% is actually 30%.

Kakuzan Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to. from Knock knock, open up the door, it's real. Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to.
#107420: Aug 22nd 2019 at 10:24:06 AM

[up] Yes, very much so.

Don't catch you slippin' now.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#107421: Aug 22nd 2019 at 10:25:35 AM

Okay, those are some new numbers. Let's see what that would look like if Far From Home had been made under Disney's proposed new deal, under the "No Longer a Billion-Dollar Movie" formula (also known as basic math).

Under the new deal, Sony would take in $777,250,348.00 from a Far From Home-equivalent Spider-Man film. On the Spider-charts, this beats out the box office take for both of the Amazing Spider-films, but falls just short of the (somehow, because box office numbers are weird) worst-performing Raimi film, Spider-Man 2.

Also falls pretty far short of Sony's recent in-house Spider-film, Venom, which made $856m.

That being said, I don't actually know who foots the costs for the movies, Sony or Marvel. I've heard people say both. So I don't want to make assumptions here. But assuming it's Marvel, the 70-30 split doesn't seem so bad. If we adjust the box office totals by deducting their production costs EXCEPT the MCU Spider-films but only apportion 70% of those to Sony, then Sony's numbers look like this:

  • Spider-Man: Far From Home $777m
  • Venom: $756m
  • Spider-Man: $683m
  • Spider-Man 3: $633m
  • Spider-Man: Homecoming: $616m
  • Spider-Man 2: $584m
  • Amazing Spider-Man: $528m
  • Amazing Spider-Man 2: $509m (conservative estimate; budget is somewhere between $200-300m)

That changes the picture rather substantially.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#107422: Aug 22nd 2019 at 10:30:56 AM

Yes. How dare she be critical of rampant unchecked monopoly-building.
If you think Sony is going to keep monopoly-building unchecked, then I have some bad news for you.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#107423: Aug 22nd 2019 at 10:35:22 AM

The real plot twist would be if Sony bought out Disney. That'd be something no one would see coming.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#107424: Aug 22nd 2019 at 10:39:14 AM

So basically, the deal being offered does benefit Sony, but they could still make more on their own, hence why they went with that.

So, are we totally hating Sony now, or still giving Disney shit on principle?

All I can say is:

<Points at Disney and Sony>

FIX THIS. NOW.

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#107425: Aug 22nd 2019 at 10:41:03 AM

It occurs to me that those numbers I provided didn't adjust for inflation. Boxofficemojo doesn't provided adjusted totals for Worldwide sales, so let's do some math. We can calculate an inflation percentage based off the domestic and domestic (adjusted) tables, then apply that percentage to worldwide take.

Adding this to the existing parameters (70% MCU films, deduct production cost from non-MCU films), we get these results:

  • Spider-Man: $1.135b
  • Spider-Man 2: $937m
  • Spider-Man 3: $909m
  • Spider-Man: Far From Home: $777m
  • Venom: $756m
  • Amazing Spider-Man: $648m
  • Spider-Man: Homecoming: $622m
  • Amazing Spider-Man 2: $567m (conservative estimate)

If Venom's numbers seem weirdly high in these tables, I should note that Venom only had a $100m production. The Spider-films average around $200-230m. So when we deduct production costs, that hits the Spidey movies more than it does Venom.

It's also worth noting that Sony's been trying to recapture the magic that was Raimi's first Spider-Man pretty much since the first reboot, and this effort is tragically misguided. Ultimately, Spider-Man 1 performed as well as it did not just 'cause it was a cool superhero movie, but because of timing and marketing.

Spider-Man 1 came out in May of 2002, when the nation was still freaked out by the events of 9/11. It was poised as an AMERICA F*CK YEAH movie right when a terrified country really needed that kind of reassurance. That kind of lightning doesn't strike twice, and it's a testament to what Marvel's done with the character that they were able to recapture those kind of sales figures without the most famous terrorist attack in national history motivating filmgoers.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 22nd 2019 at 11:49:50 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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