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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#106901: Aug 15th 2019 at 7:47:36 PM

The boldest choice would be to have the film be life literally flashing before the eyes of Black Widow as she falls in the Soul Stone pit. So she reminisces her life as she falls down, wondering what she's been through. Film ends with her finally reaching the ground with a smile, having accepted that her life (and death) were worthy. Post-credits scene would be some character of her past (possibly her successor as Black Widow) walking up to her gravestone (or something to that effect) and promising to keep up the fight. Second post-credits scene some other wacky marvel shit.

They're probably not doing that though.

I think in the scenario where the tie-in is a successor, the framing device could likely sidestep Natasha's death completely and just be about her memorial. Either a proper dedication, or just some key people visiting the memorial.

Perhaps it could end with Yelena Belova (if my aforementioned theory on her is correct) going directly from the service to tie up a final loose end from the events of the main story. So instead of her saying that she is going to carry on Natasha's legacy, we are shown why she is capable of doing so.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#106902: Aug 15th 2019 at 7:50:49 PM

Okay that makes America, Russia, UK, Japan, who else has awful leaders?

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 15th 2019 at 7:56:48 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#106903: Aug 15th 2019 at 7:52:07 PM

[up]Venezuela, Brazil, Hungary, mainland China, North Korea, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Thailand, Turkey...

Also, technically it's the United Kingdom, not just England. England is just one of the countries that is part of the U.K.

Edited by M84 on Aug 15th 2019 at 10:55:00 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#106904: Aug 15th 2019 at 7:55:57 PM

The Black Widow movie needs to start with Natasha plummeting, record scratch, "I bet you're wondering how I got here"

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#106905: Aug 15th 2019 at 7:57:54 PM

It should end with The Reveal that the whole movie is a story being told by Natasha in the Soul Stone dimension.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#106906: Aug 15th 2019 at 8:00:00 PM

End with the reveal that Black Widow is still alive, and the one who hit the ground too hard was just a Mysterio illusion of a Loki illusion of a Skrull shapeshifted into an LMD wearing one of those spy masks from Winter Soldier.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Aug 15th 2019 at 11:02:02 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#106907: Aug 15th 2019 at 9:16:36 PM

I like the idea that the one who died was a LMD, but that the Widow movie is going to reveal that Natasha is in some kind of horrible dire straits that she can't reveal and/or that she now has to pretend to be dead even from her closest friends for plot reasons, so losing that LMD was still losing her only line into the rest of the world.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#106908: Aug 15th 2019 at 10:24:47 PM

The Natasha who died can't have been an LMD, because that's not how the Soul Stone works. A soul for a soul, remember? And robots don't have souls.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#106910: Aug 15th 2019 at 11:11:00 PM

[up][up] An LMD is more of a suit than a robot depending on the writer, but yeah - I'm going for a loophole, essentially, that sacrificing everything without literal death would be enough to activate the sacrifice requirement of the Stone. That she lives, but that losing that body breaks Nat's will and remands her to half a life regardless (but still alive to have future appearances).

Unless they give Nat a Replacement Goldfish like they did Gamora, they're probably going to have to invent a loophole for it at some point anyway - especially if the Black Widow film takes off.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#106911: Aug 15th 2019 at 11:20:13 PM

Marvel is casting a Chinese-American secret agent character. I'm guessing this is Leiko Wu for the Shang-Chi movie.
Hm. If it is Leiko Wu, then I have no idea who Awkwafina is playing in the movie. Although, in the comics, the Mandarin does have a daughter — Sasha Hammer (who is Justin Hammer's granddaughter, too). In the movie, they could make her someone else, someone new, too. I guess she could literally be anybody.

You know what would be cool? Awkwafina is also half-Korean, so they could have her play White Fox, an agent with South Korea's National Intelligence Service.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#106912: Aug 15th 2019 at 11:22:01 PM

Huh I was watching a video criquing Marvel’s current crop of cartoons topic went to Anya Corazón & she went on a rant about how Marvel’s Spider-Man (2017) done her dirty & I’m like after finding out stuff about “Holy shit, she actually had some pretty cool stuff” at least before Marvel generalized to her to just another spider-person.

Like magical spider tattoo, magic spider armor, grappling hook pistol cause she can’t make webs, a civil spandex she’d bring in some good stuff. Plus she’s Latina so another plus there.

I’m thinking it be really cool to see other spider-people brought on board one days but Peter has to be an adult first. Seriously that’s the important thing, like you can’t bring in Miles until Peter is well over 25 at least after all.

Marvel’s Spider-Man really shows what a fuck-up it is to have too many spider-people around the same age. You run the risk of diluting the brand.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#106913: Aug 16th 2019 at 1:27:34 AM

What was the video's issue with Anya in the cartoon?

Hm. If it is Leiko Wu, then I have no idea who Awkwafina is playing in the movie.

Isn't Leiko Wu British-Chinese? It might be a different character from Leiko. Then again fake nationality is a thing in movies.

Edited by windleopard on Aug 16th 2019 at 1:34:22 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#106914: Aug 16th 2019 at 1:33:34 AM

It was her being generalized to just another spider person as in powers & origin functionally identical to Peter. None of the things that made her unique, her code name is Spider-Girl instead of Araña & she was wearing her current comic costume which now I realize is really bland & nondistinctive.

That’s the problem with the cartoon, it has Peter, Gwen, Anya, & Miles all at the same age at the same school as super genius nerds & spider people yet only Miles has distinct abilities beyond the general power-set that started with Peter.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 16th 2019 at 3:59:22 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#106915: Aug 16th 2019 at 1:48:41 AM

Although, in the comics, the Mandarin does have a daughter — Sasha Hammer (who is Justin Hammer's granddaughter, too). In the movie, they could make her someone else, someone new, too. I guess she could literally be anybody.

What's more, in the comics one of Shang Chi's enemies is Fu Manchu's daughter. If they're compositing Fu Manchu's role into Mandarin, then the daughter characters could be fused together as well.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#106916: Aug 16th 2019 at 3:58:19 AM

Well I, for one, am glad the adjective turened out to be even more appropriate than initially intended.

But, moving on: Arana was also a pseudo-sidekick for Ms Marvel (Denvers) so if they wished to the MCU could use the sequel to introduce her.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#106917: Aug 16th 2019 at 7:03:14 AM

Unless they give Nat a Replacement Goldfish like they did Gamora, they're probably going to have to invent a loophole for it at some point anyway - especially if the Black Widow film takes off.

I certainly hope they do.

Given the ambiguously metaphysical nature of how she died, if this were the comics, Nat would be back on her feet in short order. There are so many ways to write an 'out' for her death, and comic writers are very well-versed in undoing bad plot points.

What makes me reluctant to think they will is that this is the cinematic universe, which has historically been reluctant to undo character deaths. Even when they're dumb, like Quicksilver's. Even Phil Coulson who was explicitly resurrected to lead his own TV show is still considered "Totes Dead" by the Film Team.

So as much as I'd love for the Black Widow movie to bring Nat back and kick off a typical solo film trilogy like all the other characters get, I'm expecting a Swan Song.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#106918: Aug 16th 2019 at 7:38:53 AM

[up] Yeah, while I reserve the right to change my mind 5 minutes from now, I am leaning more towards establishing a new Black Widow or somehow leading in to the post Infinity saga Myth Arc as the tie-in to the "modern" story.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#106919: Aug 16th 2019 at 7:43:26 AM

I really don't want it to establish a new Black Widow.

Fans have been fighting for years to get this film made because they identified with Nat. It would be a final insult to injury for Marvel to go, "We're finally making a Black Widow film series! But it's still not the Widow you actually wanted, because f*ck you."

I'd honestly rather it just be a single one-and-done prequel than for Marvel, in yet another act of tone-deafness, to write the specific Black Widow character fans fell in love with out of her own film series.

People didn't spend years fighting for this movie to exist because they just wanted a movie to exist that has the words "Black Widow" in the title. They did it for Nat.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 16th 2019 at 8:45:38 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Akirakan Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#106920: Aug 16th 2019 at 8:50:09 AM

[up][up][up][up] Brie Larson has actually said that Anya is one of her favorite superheroes and Paul Tobin's Spider-Girl is one of her all time favorite comics. She could influence a potential appearance in the MCU, but since Sony potentially also holds the rights to her, that would mean negotiating with them.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#106921: Aug 16th 2019 at 8:54:39 AM

Damn, I would love it if they introduced Anya Corazon into the MCU. Especially because there's a real dearth of Latinx characters in the MCU and Anya is half-Pueto Rican and half-Mexican. Which would doubly piss off right wing douchebags.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#106922: Aug 16th 2019 at 9:06:19 AM

It really doesn’t help that Marvel’s Latino characters were either tied up in licensing shenanigans or fundamentally couldn’t work in the setting (such as the fact that the Nova Corps wouldn’t allow for comic Nova).

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#106923: Aug 16th 2019 at 9:06:33 AM

Thought Jessica Drew would have been the one introduced in a Captain Marvel movie, but whatever works.

Wake me up at your own risk.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#106924: Aug 16th 2019 at 9:09:54 AM

The movie Nova Corps could conceivably move into more comic book style after their terrible drubbing by Ronan and Thanos.

James Gunn just didn't like powerful helmet man Nova and wasn't going to use it for his movies. And also he wanted Peter Quill to be the only human or half-human in space. Hence Drax not being a dead guy shoved into a green man.

Edited by Bocaj on Aug 16th 2019 at 12:11:27 PM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Akirakan Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#106925: Aug 16th 2019 at 9:18:21 AM

[up][up]I imagine Sony is a influence on that. Sony has the rights to Jessica Drew as Spider-Woman. Marvel/Disney can use Jess, but not call her Spider-Woman nor display powers. She could be used, but only as a agent or PI, with no powers.

Of course, Marvel is unsure how long how Sony will play with them, so they're playing safe with what characters they introduce.

That's what puts Anya in a funny situation; seemingly, Sony has the rights to Anya as Araña, but Disney has the rights 'as Spider-Girl.

Edited by Akirakan on Aug 16th 2019 at 9:25:13 AM


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