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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#106601: Aug 7th 2019 at 8:05:55 PM

Also they’re working on another Marvel IP.
Are they? I thought they were working on an IP, but I didn't think it was a Marvel IP. I know they are making Grimjack.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#106602: Aug 7th 2019 at 8:28:48 PM

I'd actually really like a Bob: Agent of HYDRA movie.

Like, imagine James Bond. But he works for an evil organization. But that's okay, because Failure Is the Only Option, he's not particularly competent besides, nor very suave or lucky. Plus he prefers going out for beers with the heroes more than trading bullets.

Basically, where Deadpool is a self-referential action movie parody (albeit with a lot played straight), Bob would be a self-referential spy movie parody.

Plus I'd love a movie where the protagonist utterly fails but the "good guys" triumphantly win.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 7th 2019 at 8:29:07 AM

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#106603: Aug 7th 2019 at 8:34:37 PM

One idea you could have is to have Bob or whoever make the heroes (and his evil employers) think he's incredibly competent, even though he constantly continues to fail.

Leviticus 19:34
jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#106604: Aug 7th 2019 at 11:26:24 PM

Or he actually genuinely IS competent but he's just a mundane human being facing Thunder Gods, Green Rage Monsters and a Spider-powered teen genius so loses nonetheless.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#106605: Aug 7th 2019 at 11:55:00 PM

Edited post. Sorry wrong thread

Edited by windleopard on Aug 7th 2019 at 11:55:57 AM

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#106606: Aug 8th 2019 at 1:08:35 PM

The Russos are also set to make a Science Ninja Team Gatchaman adaptation, too.

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Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#106607: Aug 8th 2019 at 10:43:46 PM

Finished video plays at 13:57 and 16:38, with one of the actual stunt doubles from Civil War watching.

So that's why they call Wanda "Scarlet Witch". D:

ThuggishThanos92 from Planet Hala Since: Mar, 2019 Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#106608: Aug 9th 2019 at 12:49:02 AM

The MCU ruined Ronan the Accuser.

I'm re-reading Annihilation and War of Kings right now, and Ronan has much more depth to his character than what is portrayed in Guardians of the Galaxy and Captain Marvel. The movies just has him as a edgy and bellowing Complete Monster villain, destroying Xandar for the sake of evil, when really, he's a far more complex character. He is like Judge Dredd or Inquisitor Eisenhorn, he has a grey and compelling morality, and though he may be a ruthless dude, it's not as simple as what is portrayed in the film. He cares about the survival of his people and the individual acts of justice, not the context. And his relationship with Crystal of the inhumans was cute. It's a shame we'll probably never get anything like Annihilation on the big screen.

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#106609: Aug 9th 2019 at 1:12:20 AM

I was thinking about what the Captain Marvel sequel could be like earlier, even though much of what I thought of seems obvious that it's gonna happen. I can imagine Carol's more thorough encounter with the Supreme Intelligence being more visceral, more rightfully angry as she tries to dismantle it and everything it stands for. Yon-Rogg and Ronan (who hopefully gets a bit more going for him) are obviously set up to return, and the former's survival rate past the sequel ain't looking too good IMO. Maria, Monica and Goose will (hopefully) likely come back as well.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#106610: Aug 9th 2019 at 1:23:53 AM

It's confirmed that the adult Monica Rambeau will be in the WandaVision Disney+ show.

ThuggishThanos92 from Planet Hala Since: Mar, 2019 Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#106611: Aug 9th 2019 at 4:38:57 AM

@Ayy Its Midnight

Oh yeah, can't wait to see Mary Sue Danvers commiting genocide of the Kree.

Ronan is probably the worst mcu villain of them all after Malekith, simply because the 616 universe has such complexity and depth. Honestly, so far the Kree as a whole haven't been handled the way I had hoped they would be. I was really looking forward to Captain Marvel, hoping we'd not only see what pushed Ronan on the path of zealotry but also a better, more rounded view of the Kree.....and I definitely didn't get it. I got hope for the future, but.......really, the MCU needs to take a hard look at how they handle their villains and make some adjustments. We need more Lokis and fewer Yellowjackets.

I guess Feige and Co. hate the Kree and are Skrull fanboys.

Another bad thing about Captain Marvel is that we are probably never going to see Genis-Vell or Phyla-Vell, or Hulkling and Noh-Varr on the big screen.

I mean, who knows though? Captain Marvel ends with a lot of interesting loose ends that, at least to me, seemed implied to maybe be picked up in the sequel. We know the skrulls (Talos and his group anyway) end up back on earth. We know that Ronan eventually goes rogue, that the Kree made peace with the Nova Corps after being at war with them for generations. We know Carol planned on going after the Supreme Intelligence and destroy the Kree homeworld and was in space (or at least not seen in public) for two decades. And we know that Ronan swore to return for Carol.

There is a whole mountain of potential there to continue Ronan's narrative and explore him (and everything that happened with Carol and the Kree) more deeply. And while it seems likely the next Captain Marvel film will take place in the present day (or, well, present day MCU; 2023) we've already had some films set in the past, and more on the way (like Black Widow).

So maybe all hope is not yet lost. Maybe we'll get a CM sequel set in the past that covers at least some of these threads....but I'm definitely not holding my breathe. I think Marvel will want to explore the cosmic MCU post-Snap more than they'll want to fill in the blanks on things we already know the ending to.

The introduction of adult Monica.....I suppose I could see that support either the idea of Carol's films exploring the past *or* as proof they're looking forward. The fact that Monica is showing up in Wandavision rather than CM 2 *could* indicate that Carol's sequel will be set in the past, and thus there'd be no way for adult Monica to show up. OR it could tell us that they're setting the stage for a fully formed, heroic Spectrum (or whatever name she goes by) in CM 2 without having to spend screen-time on Monica's origin.

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#106613: Aug 9th 2019 at 6:34:19 AM

Movie Ronan is based on what 616 Ronan had been like for decades

It took a long time for him to develop into anything more than a mustache twirling jackass

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#106614: Aug 9th 2019 at 6:36:42 AM

We don't need every villain to have a 10-page backstory and tragically weep into the camera. But something interesting besides "I am evil and I want to destroy things" would help.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 9th 2019 at 9:36:53 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#106615: Aug 9th 2019 at 6:38:56 AM

“I’m mad that my family died in the War and I think a peace treaty lets Xander off too easily” was at play

That’s something

It doesn’t get discussed very often but this makes him a foil for the Guardians who are all, as Peter describes it, people who have lost something.

Edited by Bocaj on Aug 9th 2019 at 9:42:00 AM

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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#106616: Aug 9th 2019 at 6:44:29 AM

Yeah, but it never really goes anywhere in the film. Had they even tried once to play the "we're all mad at something" card to persuade Ronan to relent, it might have worked. Although I thought he was rather silly as a villain, Ego got ten times the character development that Ronan did.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 9th 2019 at 9:47:41 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#106617: Aug 9th 2019 at 6:49:01 AM

What’s interesting is that Drax of all the Guardians reacted most like Ronan to losing his family

The others minus Groot all had shades of self destruction but Drax was almost all externalized destructiveness

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#106618: Aug 9th 2019 at 7:12:06 AM

It's also not really fair to say "the MCU should take a good look at their villains and do better in the future", because it's clear they did and they have. As of Spider-Man: Far From Home, the MCU has been on a hot streak of 9 movies in a row with great villains, with the last mediocre villain being Kaecilius all the way back in Dr. Strange.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#106619: Aug 9th 2019 at 7:48:26 AM

I will said weak villians usually happen in origin stories, with Loki and Killmonger being the exception(and in case of Killmonger it help the movie isnt a oring story, well kind of).

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#106620: Aug 9th 2019 at 9:16:25 AM

Oh yeah, can't wait to see Mary Sue Danvers commiting genocide of the Kree.
I don't think you know what a Mary Sue is. Carol definitely isn't one.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#106621: Aug 9th 2019 at 9:25:41 AM

That's sarcasm, there. They were using the tag and everything.

And yes, they could have fleshed Ronan out more, but ultimately I think that would have been a waste. Guardians is very much about the team themselves, introducing Thanos a bit more and setting up the future of the Infinity Saga. Ronan's "just" a psuedo-religious fanatic, and well, people like that exist. Finding out why they became blithering xenophobic fanatics isn't exactly high on my list of engaging story telling examples.

Though I think saying "Feige and co hate the Kree" is a bit reductive. They just make good villains, that's all.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#106622: Aug 9th 2019 at 9:46:28 AM

That's sarcasm, there. They were using the tag and everything.
I'm pretty sure the sarcasm was about them wanting to see Danvers genocide the Kree, not about her being a Mary Sue.

Ronan is fine as a villain. He isn't supposed to be anything other than a villain. And the Kree are a race of assholes. This is true in the comics as it is true in the movies. But hey, we've seen good Kree in the movies (Mar-Vell) and in the TV shows (Agents of SHIELD had Vin-Tak in the second season episode "Who You Really Are").

Edited by alliterator on Aug 9th 2019 at 9:48:28 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#106623: Aug 9th 2019 at 9:50:14 AM

Whats weird is that in the comics the Kree have always been more heinous villains than the Skrulls, who the Kree in fact radicalized, but the comics always treat the Kree as the more noble of the two possibly because they don't have lizard face.

Even when the Skrulls become desperate survivors and refugees because Galactus ate their home planet and then Annihilus steamrolled over their splintered empire and fed their biomass to a planetbuster, the skrulls are the ones who Weirdly Evil Carol Danvers gleefully watch asphyxiate while the Kree are treated much better despite still running an enormous space empire and getting their start wiping out the other intelligent race that occupied their home planet.

Really, its just the pendulum finally swinging the other way.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#106624: Aug 9th 2019 at 11:06:24 AM

Ronan got away with being a one-dimensional OM NOM EVIL caricature 'cause that's all the film really had room for. The main emphasis of the first Guardians was the interaction between Quill, Gamora, Drax, Rocket, and Groot.

Ronan is the kind of villain you get when you're doing a team-up movie between a bunch of wild and disparate personalities all of whom need to be established for the first time and develop independently as characters while a plot is happening. Either you get to have shitty underdeveloped heroes like the first X-Men film or shitty underdeveloped villains, and the filmmakers made their choice. They needed bad guys to fight who could be explained quickly and easily.

Ego, meanwhile, had the benefit of coming into a movie where all the heroes were already known entities. The film didn't need to spend time teaching Drax not to sabotage the group or figuring out how Rocket and Quill mesh, and could just build on what Guardians 1 established by giving the existing characters and their existing dynamics a couple new arcs. This left more space in the narrative to spend screentime developing a complex and interesting villain.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 9th 2019 at 12:09:17 PM

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unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#106625: Aug 9th 2019 at 12:44:28 PM

[up]And to guardians credit, everytime Ronan show up, the comedy part just stop and he is treat as threat with all the presence it entails, which is more than cross or kalidacus got.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

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