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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#106476: Aug 1st 2019 at 8:14:44 PM

Having that on their resume would certainly make it harder for them to get jobs in the future.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#106477: Aug 1st 2019 at 8:21:35 PM

When you turn American patriots into suicide bombs on U.S. soil, worrying about your resume becomes the least of your problems.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 1st 2019 at 9:22:21 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#106478: Aug 1st 2019 at 8:22:07 PM

Between working on something very illegal and being (how unwitting is debatable) part of a plan to pretty much commit treason, yeah, not a good future.

Wake me up at your own risk.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#106479: Aug 1st 2019 at 8:26:20 PM

It'd be like the surviving Umbrella Corp. personnel's plight after Umbrella collapsed. Which is why so much B.O.W. stuff would end up in the black market.

Edited by M84 on Aug 1st 2019 at 11:26:54 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#106480: Aug 1st 2019 at 8:28:58 PM

If you wanted, you could even have Beck's crew join forces with the remnants of AIM.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#106481: Aug 1st 2019 at 8:48:19 PM

Ooooooh that's a good idea.

Tony did put them out of a job too.

Edited by Nightwire on Aug 1st 2019 at 8:51:26 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#106482: Aug 2nd 2019 at 6:48:05 AM

> When you turn American patriots into suicide bombs on U.S. soil, worrying about your resume becomes the least of your problems.

Wounded american patriots to my knowledge,still wondering how so someone set down thought "This totally isn't tasteless or anything!"

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#106483: Aug 2nd 2019 at 7:18:02 AM

I'm pretty sure Beck's crew are still working for Beck, m'self.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#106484: Aug 3rd 2019 at 6:52:39 AM

WandaVision Showrunner Pushed for a Diverse & Mostly Female Writer’s Room

Schaeffer told Inverse that four of Wanda Vision’s eight writers are women, and when accounting for herself, various executives, and assistants, the writers’ room has a female majority, a turnout that was “incredibly intentional, and it was very much supported by Marvel.”

“I felt incredibly strongly that we needed women and people of color and people of all backgrounds and perspectives in the room,” she said. ” I believe — I think it is fact — that stories are better the more perspectives you have.”

She admits that she wasn’t a “huge superhero movie fan” before starting to work at Marvel but feels that now that she is, there are so many opportunities to make big positive statements. Schaeffer’s vision for superhero movies of the coming decade: “more sympathetic villains, less glamorization of weaponry, and stronger representation of marginalized voices.”

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#106485: Aug 3rd 2019 at 6:54:13 AM

Well. Suddenly I’m interested in this show.

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#106486: Aug 3rd 2019 at 7:49:21 AM

Always a good thing.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#106487: Aug 3rd 2019 at 8:47:10 AM

Ooo.

I hope the show takes the opportunity to talk about Wanda's Romani heritage. It's something the films have never really brought up.

"Wait, isn't she Sokovian in the MCU?"

Romani people live in a lot of places. The two are not mutually exclusive.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#106488: Aug 3rd 2019 at 8:48:49 AM

Has Wanda's Romani heritage ever been explored beyond being used as an explanation for why she has magic?

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#106489: Aug 3rd 2019 at 8:50:23 AM

> hope the show takes the opportunity to talk about Wanda's Romani heritage

Wouldn't count it to be honest

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#106490: Aug 3rd 2019 at 8:55:17 AM

Has Wanda's Romani heritage ever been explored beyond being used as an explanation for why she has magic?

Not often, no. In fact, Marvel writers contributing to anti-Romani sentiment has been a source of controversy over on the comics side of the fence.

A lot of people really don't want to talk about the fact that Wanda is a Romani superhero. Which is why I really hope this mostly-female mostly-diverse cast of writers might be open to starting up that discussion.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 3rd 2019 at 9:55:49 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#106491: Aug 3rd 2019 at 9:47:04 AM

Romani is the poster child for "most people don't know this is a problem, which is why it's a problem" types of racism. So yeah, merely making Wanda explicitly Romani (especially in a 'verse where we know her powers don't come from her heritage) is a decent step in the right direction. Even if they don't do much else.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#106492: Aug 3rd 2019 at 9:50:18 AM

Wanda was also from a made up country in the comics (Transia) and still managed to be Roma

Kurt Busiek’s Avengers run had her explore her heritage although the execution was mixed to bad

The most obvious result of the character arc was that she changed her costume to something a little more “sexy Halloween costume version of a culture.” Her hair also got portrayed as more curly and her face was drawn less generic woman in comic but I don’t know enough to know whether this was a good take or more stereotype

She also low key started learning more about her culture by going to Roma owned restaurants and learning to dance and hanging out with people. It wasn’t much but it was an effort

The dance also seemed like sexy Halloween version of culture but again I don’t know enough to conclusively say

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#106493: Aug 3rd 2019 at 9:51:35 AM

I looked it up and found out that Wanda and Piedro were established as Romani in 1979. For some reason, I always thought it was a recent addition but good to know.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#106494: Aug 3rd 2019 at 11:22:59 AM

Not often, no. In fact, Marvel writers contributing to anti-Romani sentiment has been a source of controversy over on the comics side of the fence.
That's the Peter David con thing, right? Where he went off on a tirade against Romani? Yeah, not his best day. Thankfully, I remember him later apologizing and explaining that he had been lied to by someone about the Romani and sincerely regretting what he had said.

Wanda and Pietro's Romani heritage isn't often brought up because, for the longest time, writers were more used to them being the the children of Magneto. They just kind of ignored the "raised by Django and Marya Maximoff, two Romani travelers" bit, except for the times when they used Django as a villain. After the whole "Magneto wasn't really their father" storyline, however, James Robinson did write a pretty good solo Scarlet Witch comic which looked at Wanda's past and her real mother, Natalya Maximoff, the previous Scarlet Witch. (Yes, James Robinson loves to make non-legacy characters into legacy characters.) However, the book didn't really look in depth into the Romani, preferring instead to go the "magic is dying, Wanda has to save it" route. But at least there was an issue where they acknowledged that she was definitely Romani and that her mother had been a magical superhero just like her. (I believe her mother came from Serbia.)

Edited by alliterator on Aug 3rd 2019 at 11:25:33 AM

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#106495: Aug 5th 2019 at 9:11:49 AM

Less guns? For Black Widow (which she’s writing) and less weaponry? Why?

Sympathetic villains? Why does no one like writing villains anymore? This is something that gets said a lot but I feel like a lot of writers don’t want to commit to villains anymore. The audience wants to cheer someone and boo someone and it feels like writers don’t want to allow for the booing.

Diversity is important (hell, given Wanda’s origins it’s welcome) but the first two can be a big problem.

Edited by Beatman1 on Aug 5th 2019 at 12:14:56 PM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#106496: Aug 5th 2019 at 10:01:29 AM

Less guns? For Black Widow (which she’s writing) and less weaponry? Why?

She didn't say there'd be less weaponry, she said there would be less glamorization of weaponry.

Sympathetic villains? Why does no one like writing villains anymore?

A sympathetic villain is still a villain. And many if not most villains are written as unsympathetically as possible. I can think of at least seven from the MCU alone.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#106497: Aug 5th 2019 at 10:04:15 AM

[up]I feel like the latter (overuse of sympathetic villains) is a personal hang up of mine. There’s great cases of villains with sympathetic goals who are wrong, but if you overuse it, then I question why I’m supposed to invest in the protagonist.

Glamorization...Ok, that’s different. Even so, stuff like Stormbreaker looks awesome because it is.

Edited by Beatman1 on Aug 5th 2019 at 1:04:51 PM

jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#106498: Aug 5th 2019 at 10:06:12 AM

Less guns because Natasha can then use her wits and smarts more than just fighting her way through hordes of goons I would presume - this is a woman who has canonically fooled the God of Lies. Let's see more of that. And sympathetic villains are still villains - look at Killmonger, or Loki when still villainous. Bad guys but not Card Carrying Villains which are kind of rote and flat.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#106499: Aug 5th 2019 at 10:06:33 AM

Even so, stuff like Stormbreaker looks awesome because it is.

True. Until Thor drives it between your eyes.tongue

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#106500: Aug 5th 2019 at 10:14:01 AM

I was looking forward to some John Wick flavored Heroic Bloodshed action, but I suppose it was always a long shot.

Still holding out hope that Blade will be R-rated.


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