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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#106426: Jul 31st 2019 at 12:20:42 PM

Zemo could be a weird case of being good, but still opposed to the Avengers totally.

Like they are both doing the same mission to stop the same dude, but he arranges it so the bad dude ends up attacking them and while they're all fighting each other, he destroys whatever thing said bad dude was using.

Why not just work with them? BECAUSE FUCK THE AVENGERS!!! That's why.

This could lead to him saving the day deliberately at their expense, or often screwing himself over because he refuses to explain something to them due to his eternal grudge.

One Strip! One Strip!
ComicFan Since: Sep, 2016
#106427: Aug 1st 2019 at 8:08:07 AM

Runaways and Cloak & Dagger crossover confirmed

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#106428: Aug 1st 2019 at 8:45:36 AM

I don't think that this version of Zemo has any more reason to continue screwing with the Avengers. He accomplished what he set out to do in Civil War and even at the conclusion of Endgame, the Avengers are for all intents and purposes over.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#106429: Aug 1st 2019 at 9:05:13 AM

My wild mass guess is that Zemo survived the snap but his captors didn't and that's how he escaped, donning the purple mask after they got unsnapped.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#106430: Aug 1st 2019 at 9:13:59 AM

My guess is that he didn't escape until someone told him "Stark is dead,what reason do you have to be in here now he's gone?"

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alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#106431: Aug 1st 2019 at 9:14:31 AM

[up] His beef wasn't with Stark, it was with all the Avengers.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#106432: Aug 1st 2019 at 9:17:24 AM

He seems to have a particular dislike for Cap.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#106433: Aug 1st 2019 at 9:18:35 AM

Stark like or not is the face of the avengers and the guy who built Ultron,so while his grudge is at the avengers it's Stark he aims for

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#106434: Aug 1st 2019 at 9:21:57 AM

Yeah. Whenever people who aren't Hydra go after the Avengers, its' because of Stark.

It's the reason Wanda and Pietro hated them, and I get the feeling Zemo, while not a fan of the group as a whole, wasn't particularly enamoured with Stark either.

I mean, it's Tony Stark. Hating him is logical.tongue

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#106435: Aug 1st 2019 at 9:23:05 AM

His beef wasn't with Stark, it was with all the Avengers.

This.

An important note about Zemo is that he wasn't mad about Tony building Ultron. As with everything else in Civil War, Zemo's beef was about his family being collateral damage.

Civil War goes to great lengths to never talk about actual crimes committed by individual Avengers. It instead keeps the focus on "The Avengers are reckless heroes who constantly get innocent people killed in their huge super-battles and don't give a f*ck." That's Ross's criticism, it's Zemo's criticism, and even Tony himself lends voice to it.

It's a bit jarring given the great lengths Age of Ultron went to depict the Avengers working to minimize collateral damage. But it is what it is. So while it might make sense for Zemo to blame Tony for building Ultron, that's not his character; he's mad at all of the Avengers for recklessly disregarding the lives of him and his family in the Sokovia battle.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 1st 2019 at 10:24:49 AM

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Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#106436: Aug 1st 2019 at 9:26:09 AM

Since the comics had hologram Tony I wonder if the films will something similar

Or robo Tony who then turns evil and becomes Ultron 2.0

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#106437: Aug 1st 2019 at 9:28:50 AM

It seems understandable to me. The Avengers acted to minimize casualties but that doesn’t mean that there weren’t any. It’s laudable that it was their first priority. But people may have died anyway. It’s like Civil War. Wanda minimized deaths by launching the explosion into the air but some people died anyway. It was better than if she hadn’t acted at all but it became something to latch onto.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#106438: Aug 1st 2019 at 9:28:53 AM

[up][up]

Well, Zemo is being unfair in that regards.

We have always seen the Avengers do everything in their power to keep collateral damage to a minimum.

But since his family still died, obviously they didn't do enough right? That's shortsighted...or it would be if Tony and Wanda weren't directly responsible for the destruction of Sokovia.

So there we go I guess.

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#106439: Aug 1st 2019 at 9:40:34 AM

He also had nobody else to blame

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#106440: Aug 1st 2019 at 9:43:51 AM

Eh, it wouldn't have been jarring for me if everyone else in the movie didn't agree with Zemo's interpretation of events, including actual Avengers.

"[Charles Spencer] wanted to make a difference, I suppose. I mean, we won't know because we dropped a building on him while we were kicking ass." ~Iron Man, describing whatever movie he was watching instead of Age of Ultron. Man of Steel, I suppose?

In any case, the point is, Zemo's beef is with the Avengers as a whole. So there's no reason for him to put his beef aside just because Tony, Cap, and Nat are gone.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 1st 2019 at 10:44:40 AM

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RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#106441: Aug 1st 2019 at 10:19:28 AM

And since Marvel has taken to using "Avengers" to describe basically any instance of normally independent superheroes teaming up, as of Endgame, pretty much every character in the MCU is an Avenger now.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#106442: Aug 1st 2019 at 10:21:18 AM

Tony was watching the Tony Stark Guilt Power Hour starring Tony Stark written and directed by Tony Stark best boy Tony Stark

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#106443: Aug 1st 2019 at 10:57:29 AM

Not gonna is, I wouldn’t be mad if Kang the Conqueror showed up and it was, like, a rogue Tony Stark AI from the future. And then the final battle of the entire MCU was everyone against Tony.

I’d prefer Kang to be someone else, to be sure, but that actually works.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 1st 2019 at 10:58:41 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#106444: Aug 1st 2019 at 11:06:30 AM

Turns out Kang is Sue Storm and that’s how they introduce Fantastic Four

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#106445: Aug 1st 2019 at 11:08:49 AM

[up] That's actually what happened in the Ultimate Universe — Ultimate Kang was Future Sue Storm.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#106446: Aug 1st 2019 at 11:11:07 AM

Thank God I don't read comics anymore.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#106447: Aug 1st 2019 at 11:12:32 AM

You are missing out of some excellent comics, though. Both Al Ewing's Immortal Hulk and Hickman's current run on X-Men are amazing.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#106448: Aug 1st 2019 at 11:12:47 AM

[up][up] That was over a decade ago.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 1st 2019 at 11:13:56 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#106449: Aug 1st 2019 at 11:18:59 AM

Over a decade ago and from the Ultimate Universe, which is a famously terrible AU.

Spider-Man aside, anyway.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 1st 2019 at 12:19:51 PM

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#106450: Aug 1st 2019 at 11:21:25 AM

That was the reference

Sue came back in time to try to get herself to fuck Reed. IT WAS VITALLY IMPORTANT TO THE TIMELINE

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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