TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#106351: Jul 30th 2019 at 6:40:43 PM

To avoid the character being anathema they retconned the Jean who destroyed those planets as a clone & the real Jean was sealed in a coccoon under the sea.

[up][up][up] Damn that's a good way of putting it. [tup]

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 30th 2019 at 6:41:40 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#106352: Jul 30th 2019 at 6:46:25 PM

I think it was an intentional miscue

Byrne didn’t like the Phoenix arc for Jean at all and he was known for sneaking things in under the radar

It’d be a stretch to think he predicted exactly how it would go down but he knew Shooter was against heroes killing. Some of the sneaking was having Wolverine kill people because he knew it would piss off Shooter if he found out which he did and it did

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#106353: Jul 30th 2019 at 6:53:06 PM

If there's one good thing to come out of the Disney/Fox deal it's the potential for the X-Men to be handled way better in the MCU.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#106354: Jul 30th 2019 at 7:10:00 PM

[up][up]I'm sorry, but Wolverine has razor sharp claws as his powers. You kind of need him to be cutting people with those things, or else he's a jobber.

The legend has returned.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#106355: Jul 30th 2019 at 7:12:34 PM

Tell that to Samurai Jack

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#106356: Jul 30th 2019 at 7:13:11 PM

So how is Jean ever redeemed after something like this?
By the revelation that it wasn't actually Jean who did it, but rather a duplicate body inhabited by the Phoenix, while the real Jean healed in a cocoon in Jamaica Bay.

By the way, you can thank Kurt Busiek for that retcon.

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#106357: Jul 30th 2019 at 7:20:58 PM

So it was a Hal Jordan kind of reveal? But worse since this one completely detatched the character from the thing they did?

Kaze ni Nare!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#106358: Jul 30th 2019 at 7:21:30 PM

There are no aliens in the Dark Phoenix adaptations because superhero movies need to balance suspension of disbelief. Marvel is very much a Fantasy Kitchen Sink, and adaptations have trouble with that.

So when you have one kind of supernatural thing, creators can become reluctant to include other kinds of supernatural things from totally different genres. Like, you can have fantasy elves and wizards. But fantasy elves and wizards battling aliens? You really gotta strike the right tone and put down some groundwork to get your audience to buy into that. And if time-traveling cyborgs show up in the thick of the elves v. aliens war, it's super easy for audiences to just ragequit out of sheer confusion.

So some things just get adapted out. The Shi'ar Empire never appears in an X-Men film. The Juggernaut is just a mutant, and not the living avatar of an archdevil Hell Lord. They did finally get to one of the franchise's innumerable time-traveling apocalypse-chasers in a Deadpool film.

As with many adaptations, the MCU may be uniquely poised to do the Dark Phoenix Saga justice because they've already laid the groundwork for both aliens and cosmic godlike entities. The MCU is unapologetically the exact same kind of Fantasy Kitchen Sink that the comics are, so it doesn't have to worry about conserving suspension of disbelief while juggling a mutant plot point against a space alien plot point and a cosmic god-being plot point.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 30th 2019 at 8:22:19 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#106359: Jul 30th 2019 at 7:22:41 PM

So it was a Hal Jordan kind of reveal? But worse since this one completely detatched the character from the thing they did?
Nah, it worked because Duplicate Jean was pretty much exactly the same as Real Jean.

The only thing that sucked was that when Scott heard Jean was alive, he immediately abandoned his wife and newborn son to go be with her on their new team, X-Factor.

Edited by alliterator on Jul 30th 2019 at 7:23:03 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#106360: Jul 30th 2019 at 7:23:40 PM

It was the only way she’d ever be allowed back, at least as long as it was Shooter’s decision

He was a stickler for characters not being able to just go “my bad!” to mass murder

[up] Jean also later absorbed the psyche of Madeline and the Phoenix clone of her so she got understanding and memories of what strangers with her face had been up to

Edited by Bocaj on Jul 30th 2019 at 10:24:47 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#106361: Jul 30th 2019 at 7:32:49 PM

I'm not entirely convinced the MCU has done cosmic scale stuff WELL so far though. Ragnarok was almost pure comedy.

Ego threatening to absorb the galaxy in Guardians 2 felt so disconnected from everything else in that climax that it's kinda one of the least interesting things going on in it.

Thanos apparently snapped the entire universe, but all we see of it is how it affects earth, and a few lines explaining that it's happened in other places.

The sort of stuff I associate with cosmic scale comics hasn't really been attempted yet, and the closest they've come (Ego), I don't think captured that cosmic scale very well.

Edited by GNinja on Jul 30th 2019 at 2:33:09 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#106362: Jul 30th 2019 at 8:13:17 PM

I'm not entirely convinced the MCU has done cosmic scale stuff WELL so far though. Ragnarok was almost pure comedy.
Guardians of the Galaxy, Guardians of the Galaxy vol 2, Thor: Ragnarok, and Captain Marvel all disagree with you. And what's wrong with having a cosmic scale comedy? Something can be comedic and still do cosmic stuff right.

Edited by alliterator on Jul 30th 2019 at 8:13:44 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#106363: Jul 30th 2019 at 9:13:21 PM

I’m rather hoping that both Psylocke & Captain Briton are introduced with their familial relationship & Betsy being Mutant completely in tact.

They can make them both Japanese or half-Japanese or step-siblings or so.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 30th 2019 at 9:13:59 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#106364: Jul 30th 2019 at 9:39:17 PM

Tell that to Samurai Jack.

Sorry could you elaborate on what you mean by this @bocaj?

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#106365: Jul 30th 2019 at 10:12:00 PM

Samurai Jack wielded a katana, but the fact that it was a kid's cartoon meant they had to get... creative in how it was depicted.

Much like how X-Men cartoons only ever show Wolverine clawing Sentinels and other inorganic stuff.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Jul 30th 2019 at 1:13:07 PM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#106366: Jul 30th 2019 at 10:40:26 PM

"Something can be comedic and still do cosmic stuff right."

Because comedy often get away of a good moment were you need to be serious, compared the awkard jokes at the destruction of Asgard to Thor taking to Rocket in infinity war and revealing he is scared.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#106367: Jul 30th 2019 at 11:02:56 PM

That's not an inherent characteristic of a comedy film, only the way those particular writers chose to be funny.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 30th 2019 at 11:03:45 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#106368: Jul 31st 2019 at 4:25:13 AM

[up]well, Is almost the only type of humor Marvel used, ave of ultron and Ragnarok are glaring example.

I while said that to do comsic comic stuff you need yo take serious or at least a little More than usual.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#106369: Jul 31st 2019 at 6:16:50 AM

There are no aliens in the Dark Phoenix adaptations because superhero movies need to balance suspension of disbelief. Marvel is very much a Fantasy Kitchen Sink, and adaptations have trouble with that.

So when you have one kind of supernatural thing, creators can become reluctant to include other kinds of supernatural things from totally different genres. Like, you can have fantasy elves and wizards. But fantasy elves and wizards battling aliens? You really gotta strike the right tone and put down some groundwork to get your audience to buy into that.

I mean.

Endgame gave us space pirates, wizards, Asgardians, and techno-tribal clans vs. purple, weirdly-chinned space warlord and his army of alien monsters

Dark Phoenix the movie REALLY couldn't compete. They could've set some hint of aliens as far back as Days of Future Past. But they didn't. Because Fox was pinching that penny until it couldn't be pinched anymore.

The MCU is more than ready for mutants. evil grin

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#106370: Jul 31st 2019 at 6:17:55 AM

well, Is almost the only type of humor Marvel used, ave of ultron and Ragnarok are glaring example.
Oh look, two movies. Out of twenty-three. Certainly, Marvel has used that type of humor, but they've also used other types of humor, too. The humor in Spider-Man: Homecoming and Spider-Man: Far From Home doesn't step on any of the more serious moments; neither does the humor in any of the Captain America films or any of the Guardians of the Galaxy films. Hell, I'd even argue that the humor in Age of Ultron doesn't step on any of the serious moments, either.

The reason the humorous moments juxtapose against the serious in Thor: Ragnarok is because that film is a comedy through and through. And even then there are serious moments that don't have comedic elements to them (Odin's death, especially, and Thor's vision of him later on).

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#106371: Jul 31st 2019 at 6:21:45 AM

The humor in Ao U very much undermines the tension.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#106372: Jul 31st 2019 at 6:28:08 AM

Not to me, it doesn't. The tension works fine along with the humor. Ultron doesn't cease being scary because someone said a quip.

Edited by alliterator on Jul 31st 2019 at 6:29:54 AM

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#106373: Jul 31st 2019 at 6:39:51 AM

[up] And when Ultron himself is the one making the quip, it kind of makes it a little more scary to me.

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#106374: Jul 31st 2019 at 6:53:35 AM

Evil robots acting robotic is boring to me. Evil robots acting human and unhinged is terrifying to me. Case in point, this is from today's issue of Powers of X #1.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#106375: Jul 31st 2019 at 7:08:06 AM

I mean.

Endgame gave us space pirates, wizards, Asgardians, and techno-tribal clans vs. purple, weirdly-chinned space warlord and his army of alien monsters

Dark Phoenix the movie REALLY couldn't compete. They could've set some hint of aliens as far back as Days of Future Past. But they didn't. Because Fox was pinching that penny until it couldn't be pinched anymore.

The MCU is more than ready for mutants.

Endgame did give us all that, but not right away. They've built up the pieces of the Fantasy Kitchen Sink over time. That was the point of this bit:

As with many adaptations, the MCU may be uniquely poised to do the Dark Phoenix Saga justice because they've already laid the groundwork for both aliens and cosmic godlike entities. The MCU is unapologetically the exact same kind of Fantasy Kitchen Sink that the comics are, so it doesn't have to worry about conserving suspension of disbelief while juggling a mutant plot point against a space alien plot point and a cosmic god-being plot point.

The MCU has done so much to build out the audience's suspension of disbelief over various fantasy elements that, at this point, they could have Merlin swordfighting Darth Vader in the middle of Spider-Man's high school and audiences would go, "Yeah, I believe it. This seems real to me. Doesn't take me out of the film in the slightest."

The sky's the limit for what can be introduced to the MCU now. Which is very much a product of the time and effort they've put not just into growing the brand, but specifically growing it in different directions. There's pretty much nothing that feels too fantastic or genre-inappropriate for the world they've created.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 31st 2019 at 8:09:29 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

Total posts: 186,763
Top