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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#106326: Jul 30th 2019 at 4:00:09 PM

[up][up] I can only think of Wakanda.

I know Sokovia is a fictional country, but it's not technologically advanced. (COUGH COUGH make it Latveria COUGH COUGH)

EDIT: Pagetopper... Also, I thought we were talking technologically advanced worlds in MCU.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Jul 30th 2019 at 7:01:15 AM

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#106327: Jul 30th 2019 at 4:01:16 PM

I know a friend of mine said it's not right to count Latveria as really advanced, because Doom keeps everything not related directly to him pretty low tech.

But still, if I'm remembering right, Latveria is counted as a world Super Power (I guess because you can't just ignore Doom)

Edited by GNinja on Jul 30th 2019 at 11:01:51 AM

Kaze ni Nare!
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#106328: Jul 30th 2019 at 4:03:10 PM

At the very least, you'll likely have to fear an insane number of superweapons aimed at you.

Wake me up at your own risk.
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#106329: Jul 30th 2019 at 4:19:19 PM

Wakanda, Latveria, Atlantis...

Thats all i remember at the top of my head.

Watch Symphogear
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#106331: Jul 30th 2019 at 5:14:25 PM

Play him up instead as the leading voice in arguing that mutants can't coexist so they should go off and live on a cool island away from those dumb humans?

Basically. Instead of making him a really tone deaf "reference" to Malcolm X, make him a really tone deaf "reference" to Marcus Garvey.

Or going further back historically, essentially make Genosha mutant Liberia. Have Fabian Cortez be the villain. It's kind of baffled me that Fox never had him as a villain, but then Fox was very attached to the same old stories.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 30th 2019 at 5:23:19 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#106332: Jul 30th 2019 at 5:46:04 PM

but then Fox was very attached to the same old stories.

I guess that's one thing they and Marvel had in common...well until recently that is.

One Strip! One Strip!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#106333: Jul 30th 2019 at 5:47:56 PM

I'm not really talking about the same thing. Marvel has a habit of telling its stories in a very similar way, but has overall chosen things that haven't yet been adapted as the basis for those stories. Fox had a bad habit of literally recycling their plots and premises rather than adapting the characters in different ways.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#106334: Jul 30th 2019 at 5:57:27 PM

Well they did chose to redoe the Dark Phoenix arc so yeah they are very willing to reuse stuff.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#106335: Jul 30th 2019 at 5:58:09 PM

They did Dark Phoenix without one goddamn space alien.

My various fanfics.
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#106336: Jul 30th 2019 at 6:02:07 PM

Not once but twice.

The legend has returned.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#106337: Jul 30th 2019 at 6:04:54 PM

There are only two good versions of the Dark Phoenix Saga:

1) The 90's animated adaptation, which is also the last time an adaptation would adhere so closely to the original version;

2) And the actual Dark Phoenix Saga.

That's right. The only other good version of that saga is the original version. That's your fault Fox.

One Strip! One Strip!
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#106338: Jul 30th 2019 at 6:06:47 PM

What WAS the original Dark Phoenix story? Was it not originally about Jean Grey being revealed to be an ultra powerful, unstable mutant who had her abilities repressed via Xavier's mind buggery? Why are aliens needed in a story like that?

Edited by GNinja on Jul 30th 2019 at 1:07:59 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#106339: Jul 30th 2019 at 6:07:53 PM

Because Phoenix wasn't just "Jean Grey but angry", she was a cosmic being who ate a star and killed a planet.

Also, because it's the X-Men, and X-Men have goddamn space aliens.

EDIT: AND they never used the Hellfire Club!

Edited by SonOfSharknado on Jul 30th 2019 at 9:08:19 AM

My various fanfics.
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#106340: Jul 30th 2019 at 6:13:10 PM

[up] I mean, I totally bought that Jean in Xmen 3 could've destroyed the whole planet if she wanted to.

Maybe it's because the cosmic scale stuff has never EVER done it for me in comics, but I thought she was FAR beyond "Jean but Angry" in the film. She was completely invincible and needed to let herself be killed. In X3 at least. I haven't seen the new one.

Edited by GNinja on Jul 30th 2019 at 1:13:51 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#106341: Jul 30th 2019 at 6:17:24 PM

I haven't actually read it but the original Dark Phoenix had a very epic scope where Jean went on a cosmic rampage wiping out planets.

The climax is when she & Scott had to fight off aliens on an alien planet out to kill her because she has been destroying entire worlds.

As well as the Phoenix itself being a Godlike sentient figure of death & reincarnation.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 30th 2019 at 6:18:15 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#106342: Jul 30th 2019 at 6:19:39 PM

ON THE MOOOOOOOOON

But on a cool alien city on the Moon.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#106343: Jul 30th 2019 at 6:21:32 PM

I guess that's just going to always be one of my big unpopular opinions when it comes to comics.

I don't "get" cosmic scale stuff. What Jean does at the end of X3 is more viscerally impressive to me than something like, I dunno, the power stone destroying a whole planet in Guardians.

When things get to that scale, it kinda passes a Million is a Statistic Threshold and it just becomes a bunch of abstract numbers and concepts. When you have forces that can just blink galaxies out of existence, I don't know how I can relate either to the threat or the thing strong enough to stop it.

Kaze ni Nare!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#106344: Jul 30th 2019 at 6:25:32 PM

Actually its better because it shows the Phoenix actually losing control & going on an extended rampage of her own accord.

X3 had Jean subservient under Magneto for the most part & wasn't really scary. As a result the sotry wasn't about her, it was about Wolverine mangsting over the girl he keeps thinking about for some reason.

Same with Dark Phoenix I think. It also highlights what an absolute menace Jean has become since she barely does any evil acts over the 2 movies. She's not as dangerous in the movies.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 30th 2019 at 6:26:40 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#106345: Jul 30th 2019 at 6:29:09 PM

[up] Even Jean not being "as dangerous" in those films was still by far the most dangerous thing in any of the films.

Kaze ni Nare!
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#106346: Jul 30th 2019 at 6:31:16 PM

Actually, there was a Dark Phoenix adaptation that used the Hellfire Club in all but name: Wolverine and the X-Men.

The legend has returned.
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#106348: Jul 30th 2019 at 6:37:32 PM

The Dark Phoenix Saga is a tragedy. A good woman is corrupted by a power she can't possibly control and the people she loves watch helplessly, unable to save her as she spirals out of control and, even when she's free, has to face the consequences of her actions and ultimately pays for them.

The Dark Phoenix in the movies is "Woman with power bad. Man must kill. Make man sad."

The story in the comics was about Jean Grey. In the movies, it's about the men who kill her.

My various fanfics.
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#106349: Jul 30th 2019 at 6:37:34 PM

[up][up] So how is Jean ever redeemed after something like this?

Like, The dark Phoenix saga wasn't the total end of Jean as a character, was it?

Edited by GNinja on Jul 30th 2019 at 1:39:14 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#106350: Jul 30th 2019 at 6:37:40 PM

Oh yeah. The Xmen take on the Shiar Imperial Guard to save Jean, and get taken out one by one until only Scott and Jean themselves are left. They make one hell of a Bad Ass Battle Couple Last Stand back to back, until Scott gets knocked out and Jean starts to lose it again.

The Xmen and the Imperial Guard then have to team up to stop her before she fucks things up cosmic style and it ultimately ends with Jean using a satellite weapon to take herself out before she causes more harm.

Hell of an ending for what was all caused by a miscue between artist and writer.

One Strip! One Strip!

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