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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Dr.XXX The Mad Doctor Since: Aug, 2014
The Mad Doctor
#105826: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:02:56 PM

And then when the Avengers became a success, Fox was willing to negotiate a crossover with the MCU. Remember, Fox's rights with the X-Men and FF mean they couldn't do crossovers between the two franchises, only gags like Franklin's name on Stryker's computer. This would me we could've had the X-Men and FF in the MCU earlier like a Sony deal.

Perlmutter lowballed them and caused the deal to fall through.

Edited by Dr.XXX on Jul 22nd 2019 at 3:03:46 PM

ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#105827: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:05:25 PM

Yep Per legend Terrance was the highest paid actor in Iron Man due to RDJ's bad rep at the time, once the film was a hit and RDJ was now a bonefide A-Lister again, they told Terrance they couldn't budget and justify the crazy high salary in his contract for IM 2 for him. Asked him to take a cut or remain at the same level for IM 2, Terrance said no, and either he walked or Marvel fired him. They recast the role and Terrance's career took a bit of a nose dive after that.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#105828: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:07:53 PM

I mean, I'm actually glad they changed actors, since Howard was later accused of domestic abuse and also he doesn't believe in math.

Dr.XXX The Mad Doctor Since: Aug, 2014
The Mad Doctor
#105829: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:09:09 PM

Yes, his belief that 1 is worthless was the dumbest thing I've heard. And I once got into an argument over Blue the dog's gender.

Edited by Dr.XXX on Jul 22nd 2019 at 3:11:28 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#105830: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:09:30 PM

I believe that when Perlmutter took over Marvel he didn't actually believe that it was in such dire straits. And then he took over and found out that things were actually worse than rumored.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#105831: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:09:44 PM

Huh no wonder Stan Smith looks up to this guy.

They are both idiots. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Dr.XXX The Mad Doctor Since: Aug, 2014
The Mad Doctor
#105832: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:11:39 PM

I've also heard Perlmutter would carry a loaded gun to his workplace and once told a secretary that he, "Had a bullet with her name on it." This wouldn't be too inconsistent with people at Marvel saying that he would tear posters off the walls and throw memorabilia of then Fox properties before banning them like some dictator.

Of course, he also ran the VA for Trump for a while, but that's a different conversation.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#105833: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:13:27 PM

Sci-fi debris' video series Rise and Fall of a Comic Empire is really interesting and horrifying for the kind of fuckery that was going on behind the scenes before and around Marvel's bankruptcy.

I think one of the asshole corporate raiders that took over Marvel a) thought he had bought DC and b) sold the toy rights in perpetuity to another company he had a stake in.

And B was a big sticking point in the nonsense that followed and between the toy rights and the movie rights a big part of why Marvel had to declare bankruptcy, to dislodge some of these deals.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#105834: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:15:05 PM

Its pretty amazing all the shit Marvel went through & to see how good they doing now.

Granted the comic books aren't in the best place still.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#105835: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:16:59 PM

Disney buying them was really the best thing that ever happened to them,and I remember all the complaints people made when the deal announced

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Dr.XXX The Mad Doctor Since: Aug, 2014
The Mad Doctor
#105836: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:18:16 PM

The modern comics industry is a real piece of work since it failed to adapt to the 21st century forms of advertising. Sure, make a trailer for a comic, but don't bother talk about the plot. Instead, talk about how great the creators are.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#105837: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:19:02 PM

I believe that when Perlmutter took over Marvel he didn't actually believe that it was in such dire straits.
I mean, he definitely knew it was in dire straits — he bought Marvel after it had declared bankruptcy and it's previous owner, Ron Perelman, had basically been using it to generate junk bonds. Perlmutter, at the time, was CEO of a company called ToyBiz, which Marvel had contracted to do all of their toys. Eventually, as Perelman was forced to declare bankruptcy and a long power struggle ensued between him and Carl Icahn, after a while the courts decided to simply merge Marvel and ToyBiz and Perlmutter put forth his bid to buy Marvel, which was accepted.

This took two years. By the end, Perlmutter had to have known how much in debt Marvel was.

Sci-fi debris' video series Rise and Fall of a Comic Empire is really interesting and horrifying for the kind of fuckery that was going on behind the scenes before and around Marvel's bankruptcy.
Oh yes, that series is awesome.

Edited by alliterator on Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:20:13 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#105838: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:20:10 PM

If it hadn’t been for Perlmutter, the villain of Iron Man 3 would’ve been Maya Hansen, played by Jessica Chastain.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#105839: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:20:17 PM

I may have mistake Perlmutter and Perelman. I do that sometimes.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#105840: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:26:37 PM

[up][up]Speaking of a female villain, I'm surprised that the only female villains (besides Nebula as an outlier) are Hela and Ghost.

The legend has returned.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#105841: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:27:55 PM

Proxima Midnight but she's not got a lot going on.

Oh and the Sovereign leader.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#105842: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:31:07 PM

Thanos's children are basically just like video game bossess,which is a pity because their designs are so interesting

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#105843: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:32:35 PM

There actually is some interesting personalities among the Order such as Proxima & Glaive's marriage but sadly they couldn't get much focus in such an already massive movie.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#105844: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:36:27 PM

..they were married!?Did Thanos officiate or something

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#105845: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:36:40 PM

This doesn’t help the movie any of course but there was a recent Black Order comic that fleshed them out with each one receiving some interesting focus

Like how Corvus Glaive frets that nobody thinks he’s the funny one

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Dr.XXX The Mad Doctor Since: Aug, 2014
The Mad Doctor
#105846: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:38:41 PM

Yeah, the Black Order getting Adaptational Wimp treatment was inevitable. When your villains have spears that cut the space between atoms and create light-based poisons, the only place to go is down.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#105847: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:40:28 PM

Glaive also once made Wolverine his bitch. Like seriously old Wolvie charged at him & Glaive stabbed him like the little punk that he is breaking no sweats. tongue

[up][up] Wait which comic?

[up][up][up] I guess, it was prolly him or Maw.

At the end of Endgame as they all get dusted, you could see Proxima holding Glaive in her lap. It was pretty sweet.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:42:52 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#105848: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:41:39 PM

And Minn-Erva, though she’s much less a big deal in the MCU than in the comics.

Part of the problem is that most of these characters’ iconic Rogues Galleries incubated in the Silver Age, which wasn’t great with giving it’s predominantly male heroes A or even B-list female villains.

Hell, he fact that two of Thor’s biggest enemies are women is kind of exceptional. Spider-Man still doesn’t really have any truly lasting, major female rogues besides Black Cat (whose villain status is tenuous). And often, the villainesses you did get suffered from Most Writers Are Male issues conceptually (like Enchantress being the Femme Fatale whose motivation is “I want you to love me”) that result in them needing to be reworked nowadays.

There’s also a few cases of villainesses being turned into heroes (or at least less evil) in the MCU. Nakia, Hope, Maya, etc.

Amusingly, Marvel actually has a villain group (the Femizons) that’s really just “every female villain in the Marvel Universe together,” which makes for a handy list of villainesses they could adapt if they wanted to.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:59:16 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#105849: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:42:17 PM

Am now imagining a wedding reception with all of Thanos's children + Thanos

Someone playing "hear comes the bride".. too

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#105850: Jul 22nd 2019 at 12:43:19 PM

It was a five issue limited series sort of spinning out of Avengers No Surrender

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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