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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#104976: Jul 11th 2019 at 6:48:15 AM

I'm still holding out hope for Kang the Conqueror. I'd love to see an Avengers movie with Galactus, mind you. And one with Doom. But right now feels like the time to bring in Kang, while f*cking around with time is still fresh in audience's memories.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#104977: Jul 11th 2019 at 7:29:25 AM

Galactus has been in a bad movie too... Kang seems the logical step now that time travel has been canonised in the MCU.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#104978: Jul 11th 2019 at 7:46:31 AM

His head was in the clouds yeah but no actual character to leave impression on the audience,which is important because you won't have to worry about comparisons to another poor performance,only thing now is making a good first impression

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#104979: Jul 11th 2019 at 10:19:27 AM

How big of a Big Bad is Kang? Is he a Thanos-level "three phases and two Avengers movies" Big Bad, or is he an Ultron-level "one Avengers movie" Big Bad?

wintersnoozer Rainmaker from Chicago Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: I know
Rainmaker
#104980: Jul 11th 2019 at 10:28:59 AM

Depending on the story either or with a tendency towards the former.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#104981: Jul 11th 2019 at 10:34:03 AM

Not only is Kang a big level threat, but there's... a lot to him, which would certainly fill a lot of movies.

Like, you could have the Captain Marvel meeting him in the present, and the Hercules meeting an entirely temporally different version of him in Ancient Greece, and then have the big bad of the arc be an entire Council of Kangs - all just the same guy at different periods of his history.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#104982: Jul 11th 2019 at 10:35:50 AM

Jason Isaacs for Kang.

My various fanfics.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#104983: Jul 11th 2019 at 10:41:41 AM

How big of a Big Bad is Kang? Is he a Thanos-level "three phases and two Avengers movies" Big Bad, or is he an Ultron-level "one Avengers movie" Big Bad?

I'd say Ultron-level. The nature of his time travel gimmick is that there isn't a lot of prep work required to tell a Kang story, as opposed to all the setup needed for the Infinity Gauntlet. Essentially, Kang just pops into the timestream and does awful shit that the Avengers need to fight. He's not really a prolonged Myth Arc type of character.

The only priming the audience needs is a willingness to accept that time travel exists, and Endgame already crossed that bridge. This, I think, makes Kang a good choice for the next Avengers threat while the solo movies are laying groundwork for later villains like Galactus.

So, like, one idea for the next three Avengers films could be

  • Phase 4: Kang. Maybe tie Doctor Strange 2 in to set Kang up by having Strange studying the nature of time after losing the Eye of Agamotto. Post-credits scene reveals Kang and leads directly into Avengers 4. Meanwhile, the Fantastic Four introduce Doom, whether or not he's actually the villain. Doom proceeds to do things in various films for the next three phases.
  • Phase 5: Galactus. Plant the Silver Surfer as the threat of the second Fantastic Four film. The Surfer is defeated, but the post-credits scene reveals that he was only a harbinger of terrible things to come. Galactus arrives for Avengers 5 and is ultimately driven away.
  • Phase 6: Secret War. Bringing all the dudes together, introducing the Beyonder, maybe even loop Kang back in! All culminating in Doom stealing Galactus's power for himself and one final throwdown against the now cosmically-powerful mega-tyrant for the fate of the universe. And if Tom Holland's still around, black suit maybe?

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 11th 2019 at 11:51:40 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#104984: Jul 11th 2019 at 10:51:25 AM

The rules of time travel in his stories tend to differ from what Endgame used, though. For instance, Young Avengers has the present actively change in front of everybody because of Iron Lad (aka young Kang) refusing to become Kang.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jul 11th 2019 at 10:52:08 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#104985: Jul 11th 2019 at 11:07:52 AM

You can always justify differing rules of time travel by Kang (or Strange) handwaving with the destruction of our Time Stone has rendered time itself unstable as a result or something of the sort (a excuse that works both for the multiple words interpretation and the Stable Time Loop interpretation).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#104986: Jul 11th 2019 at 11:11:51 AM

The Kang War was also one of the best story-arcs in Avengers history and had some of the greatest moments.

Edited by alliterator on Jul 11th 2019 at 11:12:25 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#104987: Jul 11th 2019 at 11:34:13 AM

You can always justify differing rules of time travel by Kang (or Strange) handwaving with the destruction of our Time Stone has rendered time itself unstable as a result or something of the sort (a excuse that works both for the multiple words interpretation and the Stable Time Loop interpretation).

Indeed. Right now, I believe the Word of God is that the destruction of our Infinity Gems doesn't have an effect on time because the Gems still exist, they're just in an atomized state (as opposed to being literally removed from time).

But that explanation only exists in Word of God form; it's never directly stated in the film, and so it's only quasi-canon. This makes it really easy for another writer to just write a film that says "No, Thanos smashing the Infinity Gems did f*ck up time and that's why Kang can be a thing."

They could even weave something about fixing the damage to the timestream into the plot of Kang's film.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 11th 2019 at 12:35:27 PM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#104988: Jul 11th 2019 at 12:00:18 PM

SDCC exclusive shirts, which I need, especially the "America's Ass" one.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#104989: Jul 11th 2019 at 12:25:50 PM

The rules of time travel in his stories tend to differ from what Endgame used, though.

I've never thought that's so much of a problem. Narratively, time travel is similar in concept to magic in a lot of ways: the most important being that it has to be internally consistent (and thus make sense) no matter what you do, but another is that you can have different kinds/sources of time travel in a story that play by different rules, as long as the differences are clear and make sense.

We've already seen a bit of that. The Avengers' machine, using manipulations on Pym Particles, can't modify it's own timeline and can only create other timelines distinct from its origin. However, the Time Stone, being a powerful artifact fundamentally tied to the universe itself, can totally just rewind time in its own timeline and give you a do-over.

So Kang being able to do that would only really be a problem if they didn't explain it well. And since he comes from the far future there's a built in explanation: they could just have someone say "time travel doesn't work that way" and him reply "I don't have the limitations of your primitive technology. I am Master of Time" or somesuch villainous response.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 11th 2019 at 12:28:11 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#104990: Jul 11th 2019 at 12:27:00 PM

The word of god re: the stones is that they'd eventually reform but it'd take a while. And Kang is from the future. Which is a while away.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#104991: Jul 11th 2019 at 1:57:55 PM

[up]I remember Secret Wars with the TV-headed asshat showing up saying he is from millions of years into the future, unless I'm misremembering.

Either way, I really don't want the Stones to show up anymore, feels like creative laziness to re-use a MacGuffin like that.

eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#104992: Jul 11th 2019 at 2:20:31 PM

So, question. Who should be the new leader of the Avengers? I know the first and obvious answer would be Sam, but I believe Rhodey is a more adequate option, having more seniority than Sam (therw is Clint and Thir, but I don't see either a s leader material), and well I really would like him to be able to shine for once and get more spotlight.

What do you think?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#104993: Jul 11th 2019 at 2:27:34 PM

I remember Secret Wars with the TV-headed asshat showing up saying he is from millions of years into the future, unless I'm misremembering.
Secret Wars was due to the Beyonder, not someone from the future.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#104994: Jul 11th 2019 at 2:27:51 PM

Agreed that Rhodey has the seniority and military experience to be a good leader. Plus for a long time he was the only one with a positive relationship with Ross, so he has stronger connections than the others.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#104995: Jul 11th 2019 at 2:29:55 PM

Huh I just realized this.

Both Rhodey & Sam started out as Tony & Steve’s Black Best Friends but now they’ve both out-lived their white guys.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 11th 2019 at 2:30:07 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#104996: Jul 11th 2019 at 2:33:04 PM

I'm curious, who was really the leader of the original Avengers? Cap? Iron Man? Nick Fury?

And who is still on active duty? Hulk, War Machine, Falcon, Bucky, and Scarlet Witch are still around, but everybody else is either dead, retired, off-planet, busy being a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, or not actually an Avenger to begin with (Doctor Strange, Black Panther).

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Jul 11th 2019 at 5:33:31 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#104997: Jul 11th 2019 at 2:43:34 PM

[up]I went with Fury being the overall leader (by technicality) while Cap was the field leader.

This song needs more love.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#104998: Jul 11th 2019 at 2:43:59 PM

Hulk got his left arm shriveled by the glove, so he might not be in fighting condition at least for a time (if ever), which would make him more of a science guy.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#104999: Jul 11th 2019 at 2:46:45 PM

I know they said that Hulk's story isn't over.

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#105000: Jul 11th 2019 at 3:12:26 PM

So, I'm going to start Jessica Jones, first season.

Is it really that good?

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