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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#104876: Jul 10th 2019 at 12:56:52 PM

Like. Out of every horrible thing Ego does throughout the film, killing Meredith is easily the tamest. But it's what gets the focus.
Here's the thing, though: Peter didn't know about any of those other things. All he knew what was:
  1. Ego hired Yondu to take him once his mother passed.
  2. Yondu, for some reason, didn't bring him to Ego.

Gamora had the whole "this is too good to be true" feeling, but only learning about the dead kids later on, once Peter was already in the thrall of Ego. And Mantis, well, nobody ever mentions "slave" and lots of races have weird practices, so everyone might have simply thought that she was being weird.

But remember also that Ego is specifically doing something to Peter — opening his senses, making him more susceptible to Ego's will probably — and the only that the pulls him out of that is hearing that Ego killed his mom.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#104877: Jul 10th 2019 at 1:03:09 PM

I honestly thought Mantis was a servant/adopted daughter until Ego was revealed to be evil, which I'm pretty sure is the same interpretation the characters had.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#104878: Jul 10th 2019 at 1:19:39 PM

In other words,you cant fault Peter for not being bloody mind reader

Edited by Ultimatum on Jul 10th 2019 at 8:59:38 AM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#104879: Jul 10th 2019 at 1:27:41 PM

The Toxic Masculinity is precisely the product of being raised by Yondu. Who hides his concern behind being as Toxic Masculine as possible.

Like he said "Feed you to the crew" as a "Joke" but Peter as a kid expected he would be fed to the crew and with the Toxic Men that makes up most of the crew most of them likely believed he would too until they realized Peters his fav. A guy literally named Tazerface was so ridiculous in how hyper masculine it is no one outside the crew could take it seriously.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jul 10th 2019 at 1:28:48 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#104880: Jul 10th 2019 at 1:40:20 PM

Like, at first I thought Mantis was his adopted daughter who just acted like a maid to him, which is a trope I've seen before in media. It's a little problematic, but not necessarily something that means Ego is pure evil.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#104881: Jul 10th 2019 at 2:28:19 PM

Really? I was skeeved out by Mantis's relationship with Ego from the moment she called him, "My MASTER".

There aren't a lot of things that can mean. And it happens on the ship headed towards the Living Planet, just after we've met her.

One of the weirdest things about Guardians 2 is how everyone, every single member of the Guardians of the Galaxy, is 100% cool with Mantis's slavery. The only person even remotely bothered is Gamora, and that has nothing to do with her relationship with Ego; she just instantly despises Mantis on sight for no reason.

That ever-present toxic rule of patriarchal writing rearing its ugly head again: the Law of Women Be Catty Bitches.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 10th 2019 at 3:32:06 AM

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Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#104882: Jul 10th 2019 at 2:31:20 PM

I had figured she was his valet (i.e she calls him Master the same way Alfred calls Batman "Master Bruce"), not his slave, but that may say more about society's normalizing of servitude relationships than anything.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#104883: Jul 10th 2019 at 2:33:24 PM

> One of the weirdest things about Guardians 2 is how everyone, every single member of the Guardians of the Galaxy, is 100% cool with Mantis's slavery. The only person even remotely bothered is Gamora, and that has nothing to do with her relationship with Ego; she just instantly despises Mantis on sight for no reason.

Thats a load of bullshit,they didn't know and neither did we

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#104884: Jul 10th 2019 at 2:34:31 PM

"I was raised alone on Ego’s planet. I do not understand the intricacies of social interaction."

"No one has ever asked me a personal question."

"I mostly use it to help my master sleep."

Like. I can't be the only person who got GIANT GLOWING RED FLAGS from these sort of comments, can I?

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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#104885: Jul 10th 2019 at 2:34:58 PM

You can easily assume he's a very rich man going by his distinct personal ship & having an entire planet to himself.

So there is logic in believing Mantis is just a personal servant to this eccentric old man.

There is a lot of variety in how people work in space.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 10th 2019 at 2:36:05 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Cross (Don’t ask)
#104886: Jul 10th 2019 at 2:35:22 PM

After the Collector, I just assumed the other part the galaxy didn't abolish the practice.

Edited by Cross on Jul 10th 2019 at 5:37:14 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#104887: Jul 10th 2019 at 2:35:56 PM

> Like. I can't be the only person who

yes

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#104888: Jul 10th 2019 at 2:37:25 PM

You can easily assume he's a very rich man going by his distinct personal ship & having an entire planet to himself.

So there is logic in believing Mantis is just a personal servant to this eccentric old man.

There is a lot of variety in how people work in space.

A personal servant raised from birth by her explicitly-labeled master in complete isolation from all forms of society, and who has never once in her life been engaged on a personal level by said master.

See. We have a word for that.

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Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#104889: Jul 10th 2019 at 2:49:25 PM

yes we all know what slavery is without a dictionary

👀

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#104890: Jul 10th 2019 at 2:51:28 PM

I mean, the Guardians are all pricks to varying degrees. Even if they knew what slavery was, would you expect them to give a damn?

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#104891: Jul 10th 2019 at 3:05:07 PM

Yes?

Expressing moral outrage or even whispering among themselves “Wait, what? He keeps a slave?” is not a high bar.

I mean, they already will suspect he ain’t what he says. “Having a slave” can contribute to that.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Cross (Don’t ask)
#104892: Jul 10th 2019 at 3:06:59 PM

Unless it's common enough that they wouldn't bat an eye.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#104893: Jul 10th 2019 at 3:08:04 PM

Mantis only shares the tidbit about being raised alone by Ego when she's chatting with Drax somewhere along the late second act, which is where I (and I'd wager the audience) started to catch things were off, by which point the film itself is already starting to show its cards with Ego not being as benevolent as he seems. Drax does ignore this information ("so you're a pet?"), but then again he is Drax (he also seems to interpret her as a vaguely daughter figure in the same scene, so he might have figured Ego is her father figure).

Beforehand she was only very socially awkward and vaguely alluded to this with "No one's ever asked me a personal question before", which is both very brief and could be seen as simply a result of her chronic shyness.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#104894: Jul 10th 2019 at 3:19:18 PM

All of those quotes I pulled are from the first, like, ten minutes of the film.

That one in particular is from the campfire chat when Ego first arrives, right before she asks if she can pet Drax's "puppy", Rocket. She's pretty blatantly a slave right from the get-go. It's weird that the film never directly talks about it.

Indeed, the film actually compounds it by piling heaps of abuse on top of her. While Quill's pointedly ignoring that his father keeps slaves, Gamora and Drax are downright mean to her at every opportunity. She's introduced wearing a verbal slave collar and then, rather than reaching out to her or asking some pointed questions of her master, the Guardians settle for kicking her over and over again.

What the f*ck, movie?

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 10th 2019 at 4:22:55 AM

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shackwave Ultraman Omega from Nebula M78 Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Ultraman Omega
#104895: Jul 10th 2019 at 3:25:37 PM

We don’t need the characters to say slavery is wrong

Edited by shackwave on Jul 10th 2019 at 11:28:21 AM

Cross (Don’t ask)
#104896: Jul 10th 2019 at 3:27:23 PM

The previous movie had someone commit suicide to escape working for the Collector. There was a point about Yondu getting kicked out the Ravager for trafficking children (not trafficking sapient creatures period, just children).

Edited by Cross on Jul 10th 2019 at 6:30:01 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#104897: Jul 10th 2019 at 3:32:17 PM

Tobias: actually for me that is the catch that make me care about ego, having him "we need to stop him because he is evil" is reducing the guardian to standar superhero and make ego more generely evil, I mean hell I find is plan stupid and quick silly that is impact just kinda went and go "And here we have a huge wave of blue energy, oh it stop..probably tony start doing something weird, more new at eleven"

compare to that, nothing can be the used of the chain is awsome.

Also for all your fixation of mantis and guardian dismisal, the guardian didnt see anything wrong with the maid servants of the collector, even when one of them touch the damn stone and blow herself up.

They are used to it.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#104898: Jul 10th 2019 at 3:33:12 PM

We don’t need the characters to say slavery is wrong

If some people in this very thread somehow missed the fact that she's even a slave, then apparently we do.

There is a lot to like about Guardians 2. Nebula and Gamora's relationship is phenomenal. Rocket and Yondu are great. Ego overplayed the villainy a bit but he's still a really great villain.

But Jesus, there is so much that's f*cked up about their treatment of Mantis.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 10th 2019 at 4:33:30 AM

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Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#104899: Jul 10th 2019 at 3:39:17 PM

OK,once again

the knowledge that Mantis was Ego's slave was concealed from the audience and the characters until the last second,there were some clues but it was'nt immediately clear

I'm getting a little tired of explaining this

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#104900: Jul 10th 2019 at 3:57:02 PM

Yeah, Tobias, you are assuming that the clues that were obvious to you were obvious to everyone. As you can see, that's not the case.

As well, it's already been explained that a lot of what she says about Ego raising her was to Drax, who isn't well known for his tact or even sharing of information. And he assumed she was a pet, not a slave.

Slavery is also apparently legal in large parts of the galaxy. Remember: Yondu stated that his own parents sold him into slavery to the Kree.


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