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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#104776: Jul 8th 2019 at 10:50:18 AM

"In an interview with Fandango, Feige was asked where 'The Blip' came from. "It came pretty fast," he replied. "We always referred to it as the Blip, and then the public started referring to it as the Snap. We think it's funny when high school kids just call this horrific, universe-changing event the Blip. We've narrowed it down to, the Snap is when everybody disappeared at the end of Infinity War. The Blip is when everybody returned at the end of Endgame… and that is how we have narrowed in on the definitions.""

The Protomen enhanced my life.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#104777: Jul 8th 2019 at 9:39:38 PM

Back from watching Far From Home. It is fantastic.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#104778: Jul 8th 2019 at 9:55:50 PM

EDIT: Wrong thread, augh.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jul 8th 2019 at 10:25:21 AM

Dirtyblue929 Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#104779: Jul 8th 2019 at 9:58:26 PM

[up] I don't know about it being a commentary, but it definitely did feel like a tongue-in-cheek nod to the franchise's heavy reliance on special effects.

Edited by Dirtyblue929 on Jul 8th 2019 at 9:58:31 AM

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#104780: Jul 8th 2019 at 10:05:51 PM

[up][up]Put that in the spoiler thread.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#104781: Jul 8th 2019 at 10:20:29 PM

Yeah, I think the "policy" is to keep it in the spoiler thread until at least two weeks (or was it a month?) after the release.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#104782: Jul 8th 2019 at 10:29:29 PM

I think Guy Pierce was the main reason Killian didn't work as a villain. He just wasn't charismatic enough to make the character work.

I think there are more reasons, but yes I feel Guy Pierce was miscast and didn't really do anything to make Killian an entertaining villain. He isn't a bad actor, just not a good fit for that role.

Bit late to the subject of villains, but a good villain comes in all kinds of ways. There isn't a one-size fits all solution, it just depends on what's best for your particular story. The main reason a lot of the early Marvel villains weren't particularly engaging was for a multitude of reasons - a big one being a lot of them don't get as much focus or screen time devoted to them as they should. Ivan Vanko for instance gets a handful of good scenes in the beginning of Iron Man 2 but the film doesn't properly commit to him after that because it's jusggling too many other things, so he just feels totally wasted.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#104783: Jul 8th 2019 at 10:31:09 PM

Iron Man 2 struggled to handle Vanko, Hammer, and Tony's paladium poisoning.

Disgusted, but not surprised
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#104784: Jul 8th 2019 at 11:10:50 PM

I don't even think the problem was the juggling. The tail end of Vanko's arc was just handled really badly.

Ultimately, it felt like they exhausted what Vanko wanted to do in the first half of the film, but still wanted him to be the final boss... yet because they'd already had him run his course as a villain, they didn't really know what they wanted him to do, so he just attacks with an army of robots because reasons and then gets blown up why not. The decision to have Hammer be completely ineffectual as an antagonist further hurts this, because it makes the whole think feel like a poor set up that couldn't really commit to itself.

I'm pretty sure Zemo appears less than Vanko, yet accomplishes far more with what is essentially the same basic concept. Vanko wanted to make the world leave Tony behind and tarnish his legacy. Much like Zemo, the "punchline" shouldn't have been blowing up Vanko. It should have been Tony vs the world, because Vanko changed things.

Imo, it probably would have been best if he'd died or was otherwise ended his villainous role after the race, but was post-humously responsible for giving arc reactor tech to unscrupulous people and such, leaving Tony to now have prove he deserves to have his tech by taking out those who now want to use it for evil ends. Like, I'm imagining Iron Man vs a whole installments full of Iron Monger-style mechs. A real gauntlet.

But this was also back when superhero movies rarely deviated from very stringent villain formulae, even in the MCU. And sometimes, sticking to that formula backfired. It probably would have ended up better nowadays.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 8th 2019 at 11:16:02 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#104785: Jul 8th 2019 at 11:12:37 PM

The Armors Wars never did become a thing did they?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#104786: Jul 8th 2019 at 11:12:46 PM

You know, I wonder if lack of direction ever plays a factor. I read more often about how Marvel doesn’t give their movie actors full scripts, context of their scenes, even knowledge of what is happening / who else is in the scene they’re shooting. In the lower series (like the Netflix shows), each actor has created a wonderful deep character and they play them with a full understanding of who they are. In the films, actors show up, stand against a green screen, and don’t even know what scene they’re in. They’re good so they make it work, but it’s weird.

And it’s getting a bit ridiculous when spoiler culture is more important than the actor’s ability to understand their role. If your film is ruined because people find out who the hero is talking to in the end scene, maybe your narrative issues are bigger than just spoilers.

Okey Dokey!
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#104787: Jul 8th 2019 at 11:16:23 PM

There were a few times in Infinity War and Endgame where I was bugged that Chris Pratt kept having this blank expression of "D:" when looking around, and I wonder if that's because he was told so little about what he was looking at. Might not be the only example.

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#104788: Jul 9th 2019 at 12:43:56 AM

So, I once suggested a Black Widow movie whose plot is an adaptation of Secret War, set after the Civil War movie. Before the actual movie or during it's release, my memory's foggy. It was a couple of years ago.

So...is that's what happening with this Black Widow movie? I have no information on it besides being a prequel and...in 2017?

Edit: So, I now have a compulsion to watch the older movies to see if they still stand today, which I'm probably going to attempt in September.

Any warnings?

Edited by fredhot16 on Jul 9th 2019 at 1:04:32 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#104789: Jul 9th 2019 at 1:10:23 AM

... if the plot of the Black Widow movie turns out to be that after dying to get the Soul Gem, Wanda's soul is chosen by the Beyonder to save the universe by fighting the Secret War in a Time Abyss Battleworld, all is forgiven.

Like, imagine if secret war is more mystical instead, and rather than the living heroes and villains being chosen, Wanda and every other dead hero must fight against every other dead villain for the fate of the cosmos.

It's not happening, but gods do I wish it was.

Any warnings?

The sheer extent to which Tony is an asshole in his earlier movies is kind of jarring given how we've been seeing post character development for a while now. Even Endgame is character development on top of the development he's already had.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 9th 2019 at 1:13:18 AM

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#104790: Jul 9th 2019 at 1:15:26 AM

[up]...Erm...

...I meant the Skrull invasion after the events of Civil War. You know, in the comics.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#104791: Jul 9th 2019 at 1:16:56 AM

Dead Chitauri wake up to an afterlife of having to fight the good guys again. tongue

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#104792: Jul 9th 2019 at 1:17:49 AM

[up][up] You're thinking of Secret Invasion.

Secret War is a different thing.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 9th 2019 at 1:18:26 AM

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#104793: Jul 9th 2019 at 1:20:48 AM

[up]Yep, I checked. I meant Secret Invasion.

My mistake. Sorry.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#104795: Jul 9th 2019 at 4:48:05 AM

[up]... Why the heck would anyone think that?

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#104796: Jul 9th 2019 at 7:54:25 AM

Evidently, he used the word "thing" in an interview, and a subset of people jumped to the conclusion that he was playing the Thing because, after all, one doesn't simply use that word in normal conversation.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#104797: Jul 9th 2019 at 8:36:17 AM

... if the plot of the Black Widow movie turns out to be that after dying to get the Soul Gem, Wanda's soul is chosen by the Beyonder to save the universe by fighting the Secret War in a Time Abyss Battleworld, all is forgiven.
Wanda isn't dead (nor is she the Black Widow), you are thinking of Natasha. Also, even though that sounds awesome, I highly doubt it's the case. The Black Widow film seems to be a super spy adventure, probably with some more science fictional elements to it.

Now, the question of when the movie is set hasn't yet been answered and, although it might seem that the movie is set pre-Infinity War, I still think we might see something in the present day. Especially since, if the movie does well (and it probably will do extremely well) in theaters, they are going to want to do sequels and...are all the sequels going to be set in the past, too? I think Marvel is going to be wary about setting the Black Widow movies in the past, mainly because we know that we survives and anyone she meets that it's another MCU movie survives.

That's also why I think the next Captain Marvel movie is going to be set in present day — the origin story being set in the past makes sense (like Captain America: The First Avenger), but now that the origin has been told, it's time to move forward and introduce new elements, instead of explaining old ones.

Edited by alliterator on Jul 9th 2019 at 8:37:50 AM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#104799: Jul 9th 2019 at 10:19:02 AM

. Especially since, if the movie does well (and it probably will do extremely well) in theaters, they are going to want to do sequels and...are all the sequels going to be set in the past, too?

Depends whether Scarlett Johansson has told them, "Okay, put me down for one more movie, but after that, I think I'm done."

ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#104800: Jul 9th 2019 at 10:55:38 AM

Going back to keeping the full script away from actors the only two MCU films they did that with was Infinity War and Endgame with the exception of Benedict (for IW) and RDJ (for Endgame) everybody else got either no script or partial scripts.

I don't think that's a standard for ALL the films just those two since they were so huge and game changing they decided to do that and yeah lots of people noticed so I don't think they will doing that again for awhile.


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