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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#104651: Jul 5th 2019 at 6:47:34 AM

Joker is a villain who has remained alive due to the plot armor.


Ross in Civil War is a first class hypocrite, considering that he sent an attack to a university full of people.

But no one points out how hypocritical he is, so he gets away with it.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Jul 5th 2019 at 6:47:43 AM

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#104652: Jul 5th 2019 at 6:48:21 AM

Ross is an infuriating case of Karma Houdini in mu opinion.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#104653: Jul 5th 2019 at 6:50:12 AM

He failed upward

Also possible he spent the entire MCU complaining about the Hulk and when something bad finally happened (ie Hulk rampaging due to Wanda and then disappearing) Ross went “called it!” And the government was like holy shit put this stopped watch in charge!

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#104654: Jul 5th 2019 at 7:28:10 AM

He failed upward

Also possible he spent the entire MCU complaining about the Hulk and when something bad finally happened (ie Hulk rampaging due to Wanda and then disappearing) Ross went “called it!” And the government was like holy shit put this stopped watch in charge!

This is distressingly common in politics.

I think Ross got his role the same way the Red Skull picked up his Soul Gem ghost-guardian shtick. The writers went fishing for someone in Character Limbo they could just snatch up and use for the role.

Happens in comic book writing all the time. "I have this new slot in the story. Who isn't doing anything right now that could make audience go 'Oh, I know that guy!'" Thus you get weird lateral career shifts. Like, we last saw Dude Guy flying off into space to reclaim his lost kingdom and now he's in San Diego running a government conspiracy.

It usually kinda makes sense if you turn your head and squint but still feels a bit jarring to just make that kind of leap offscreen. Not unlike Soul Guardian Red Skull and SHRA Commander Ross.

Character Limbo in the MCU in particular is slim pickings, to boot. The films tend to fairly definitively conclude their characters. Loose ends are few and far between.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 5th 2019 at 8:34:43 AM

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alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#104655: Jul 5th 2019 at 8:21:42 AM

[up] I mean, it's been a while since we saw Ross, though, so that gives a plausible amount of time for him to ingratiate himself in Washington and become the Secretary of Defense.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#104656: Jul 5th 2019 at 8:23:19 AM

Who is Dude Guy because that sounds like a specific example

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#104657: Jul 5th 2019 at 9:44:16 AM

[up][up]Maybe but it still get you a "were the hell have you being all this time?" I mean, it have being since the first hulk movie, in fact I kinda get the feeling Ross in civil war dsoetn seen to recall what he did for obvious reason, almost as the movie never happen.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#104658: Jul 5th 2019 at 11:39:42 AM

At the theater, about to see Spider-Man.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#104659: Jul 5th 2019 at 11:45:10 AM

[up]

Then we'll be seeing you in the Spoiler thread soon.

Enjoy it!

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Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#104660: Jul 5th 2019 at 12:04:12 PM

Seeing tomorrow with my little brother.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#104661: Jul 5th 2019 at 2:53:18 PM

I just saw it myself. It was fun.

Not as good as the first film, I think, but Mysterio was as grandiose as he should be.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#104662: Jul 5th 2019 at 3:28:56 PM

I think Ross's political ascension may have simply been the fact he came out unscathed of no less than two massive political conspiracies (AIM in Iron Man 3, which went as far upwards as The Vice-President, and HYDRA with Secretary Pierce). By this point several people's careers must have gone down in flames from these conspiracies or association with these conspiracies.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#104663: Jul 5th 2019 at 3:33:31 PM

Besides, is it really that uncommon for military types to attain government positions in the US?

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#104664: Jul 5th 2019 at 3:35:20 PM

Arnold Schwarzenegger became governor of a California, anything is possible in politics.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#104665: Jul 5th 2019 at 3:49:20 PM

Besides, is it really that uncommon for military types to attain government positions in the US?

Disgraced professionals who ordered illegal military attacks on their own citizens inside U.S. borders? Yes. It is fairly uncommon for people in Ross's position to receive anything but a dishonorable discharge and arrest.

His campaign against the Hulk was super illegal. For a variety of reasons. You cannot order your men to shoot up a U.S. college. Especially not in broad daylight while actual f*cking bystanders are wandering about the campus.

Even if you're trying to capture a dude who you claim stole government secrets or whatever. The military does not arrest civilians for crimes; that's a posse comitatus violation that renders all of Ross's actions criminal.

And that's not even getting started with what a man under Ross's command did in Harlem....

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 5th 2019 at 4:53:11 AM

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Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#104666: Jul 5th 2019 at 3:53:44 PM

@Hail Muffin: Definitely correct-in fact, most presidents were vets.

Also worth noting is that, if you're a very high ranking member of the US military, you're almost necessarily have political connections. My understanding is that, in order to get beyond a certain rank, in practice simply being a good officer isn't enough. You also need to be able to navigate politics (IE, communicate, persuade, and maintain a working relationship with politicians).

Ergo, by the time you're a general you basically have everything in place to take a crack at being a politician.

Leviticus 19:34
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#104667: Jul 5th 2019 at 4:56:10 PM

[up]This is what I was getting at: I don't remember Ross' actual rank in the movie, but I imagine it is pretty high considering everything at his disposal.

Sending a small squad into foreign soil certainly isn't something a Private has the authority to do.

Point being that I imagine he had enough political clout to walk away from the fiasco mostly unscathed, though with plenty of favors burned, and by the time of Civil War his reputation had mostly recovered.

Also (keep in mind I have no clue how one goes about becoming Secretary of State) for all we know he might've gotten the position fairly recently. We don't know what in God's name he's been doing in the 4-5 years between TIH and Civil War, after all.

Edit: The MCU Wiki says he's a Lieutenant General, which is what, second highest Officer rank? Third? Either way, he's a ways up in the pecking order.

Edited by HailMuffins on Jul 5th 2019 at 9:06:33 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#104668: Jul 5th 2019 at 6:37:14 PM

keep in mind I have no clue how one goes about becoming Secretary of State

He would have to first be appointed by the sitting President. Then he would undergo extensive background checks in Congress and by the press before finally facing a confirmation hearing in the Senate. If the Senate voted to approve his nomination, he'd be officially sworn in as SecState for the duration of the President's term in office.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 5th 2019 at 7:38:36 AM

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#104669: Jul 5th 2019 at 6:46:45 PM

Ok then, after the disaster with the Hulk, how the hell did he become Secretary of State?

Is the president an idiot?

One Strip! One Strip!
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#104670: Jul 5th 2019 at 6:51:37 PM

Evidently the political higher-ups in the MCU aren't much better than our own political higher-ups. So yeah, that seems to be the case.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#104671: Jul 5th 2019 at 6:51:39 PM

Follow-up question, why State? Why not Defense? Ignoring Ross's extensive crimes, a war hawk like him typically belongs in the SecDefense position, where he'd be responsible for the Executive branch's military leadership.

SecState is responsible for foreign policy. In this position, Ross is essentially the face of the United States internationally. All matters of international diplomacy go through him.

It's a role that makes sense for the position Ross is meant to hold in the film: reigning in the Avengers to stop pissing off the international community. But it makes zero sense for Ross as a character.

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Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#104672: Jul 5th 2019 at 6:54:06 PM

Not that long after TIH they had a Vice President funding a corporate terrorist group that kidnapped the President, a Nazi cult in the Senate and every level of their national security agency, and a global leadership who tried to nuke Manhattan. Ross getting in is comparatively slight.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jul 5th 2019 at 6:55:42 AM

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#104673: Jul 5th 2019 at 6:57:05 PM

Wouldn't Bruce say something about Ross at some point?

The legend has returned.
IronScope STOP. RESETTING. MY. DISPLAY. OPTIONS. from Somewhere Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
STOP. RESETTING. MY. DISPLAY. OPTIONS.
#104674: Jul 5th 2019 at 7:14:06 PM

We don't know when exactly Ross got appointed. It might have happened after Bruce fucked off at the end of AOU.

And not being involved in Extremisgate or HYDRAgate would probably be a boon for his career.

Edited by IronScope on Jul 6th 2019 at 12:14:24 AM

This place is careless.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#104675: Jul 5th 2019 at 7:21:51 PM

Poor President Ellis probably going down as one of the worst leaders in US history.

@Tobias: Maybe he was the only candidated with experience in handling metahumans?

If one considers failure experience, anyway.

Edited by HailMuffins on Jul 5th 2019 at 11:25:51 AM


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