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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#104626: Jul 4th 2019 at 7:30:31 PM

Bucky going easy? really?.

I mean Bucky is outright shock when Peter block is fist with easy and he wreck him and falcon in part because he is fighting is terrain, meanwhile I can see fighting cap in a open field with little to not place to climb was a bad idea.

So yeah im parcially calling that a bullshit handwave.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#104627: Jul 4th 2019 at 7:49:50 PM

Except for T'Challa fighting Bucky, no one in the airport fight from Civil War was actually trying to kill or seriously injure the people they were fighting.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#104628: Jul 4th 2019 at 8:00:04 PM

[up][up][up]Yep, Kraven's whole shtick is that he's a former Badass Normal Egomaniac Hunter who doesn't take it well when he realizes that being a Badass Normal has its limits. So he takes to doping himself to keep up with superpowered human prey...and suffers the consequences for it. Because Drugs Are Bad m'kay?

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#104629: Jul 4th 2019 at 8:04:10 PM

Him choosing to also become a lion man would have a similar message.

Ya know giving up your humanity & disfiguring your body to a huge measure all for the pursuit of power, glory, & vengeance.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#104630: Jul 4th 2019 at 8:05:44 PM

Except for T'Challa fighting Bucky, no one in the airport fight from Civil War was actually trying to kill or seriously injure the people they were fighting.

At least not on purpose. Vision did haphazardly shoot a mega death laser at Falcon, albeit while distracted.

It beats comic Civil War though, where Tony irresponsibly built a superweapon specifically for use against his friends, resulting in one of their deaths upon his unleashing it.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 4th 2019 at 8:07:27 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#104631: Jul 4th 2019 at 8:09:27 PM

[up]Or when Antman tose rhodey at bus and is only vision who save him, people complain about Tony bring Spidy but Antman is equally clueless fighting.

Also again, bucky not killing dosent mean going easy.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#104632: Jul 4th 2019 at 8:10:57 PM

Well Scott is an adult.

Not a good or smart one (though he gets better), but still.

One Strip! One Strip!
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#104633: Jul 4th 2019 at 8:14:33 PM

[up]He throw a living gas vehicle during the fight, even Cap look him with a "REALLY?" kind of face, he could have kill someone.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#104634: Jul 4th 2019 at 9:43:58 PM

I focus on power levels only when the scale of the story seems to ask for it.

Like, I care more about Thanos and Ultron being powerful than Vulture, because the first two supposedly warranted the Avengers to defeat, while Vulture specifically hid himself from the big heroes and was clearly improv-ing out the ass to fight Spidey.

Kaze ni Nare!
MedusaStone Since: Jan, 2015
#104635: Jul 4th 2019 at 9:45:48 PM

Weren't Iron Man and War Machine both firing rockets at people who were not wearing rocket-proof suits of armor? I wouldn't call that 'non-lethal'. I will grant you T'challa was the only one explicitly trying to kill someone.

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#104636: Jul 4th 2019 at 9:51:39 PM

[up] I'm not sure if there's a trope for this, but there's a phenomenon I've noticed in stories with combat. The narrative doesn't hold attempted murder against someone if they use lethal force under the reasonable assumption that the opponent is skilled enough to block or dodge it.

Like, in Wheel of Time there's a chapter where one of Rand's generals hurls a knife at Rand out of nowhere to make a point, because he's 99% sure Rand would pluck the knife out of the air using magic. He's not treated like an attempted murderer, even though Rand could've been having an off day and not reacted in time.

Edited by GNinja on Jul 4th 2019 at 4:52:22 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#104637: Jul 4th 2019 at 10:00:48 PM

Yeah, they seemed to be going for suppressing fire.

ThuggishThanos92 from Planet Hala Since: Mar, 2019 Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#104638: Jul 4th 2019 at 11:56:07 PM

@Weirdguy 149

One of the last things i want to see is Victor Von Doom turned into a nerfed clown, like what happened with a certain robot with Oedipus Complex.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#104639: Jul 5th 2019 at 12:29:11 AM

I'm not sure if there's a trope for this, but there's a phenomenon I've noticed in stories with combat. The narrative doesn't hold attempted murder against someone if they use lethal force under the reasonable assumption that the opponent is skilled enough to block or dodge it.

This actually comes up a lot in superhero media.

In a superhero story, all violence is non-lethal unless it's a specifically indicated attempt to kill a person. The consequences of violence are 100% motive-based. Grim and gritty antiheroes like the Punisher and Wolverine have their punches set to Kill, and thus you will die if they blow on you lightly. Meanwhile, optimistic heroes like Superman or Captain America have their punches set to Stun, so they can smash your face through three feet of sheet metal, shoot lasers down your throat, and then hurl you into the sun with no lasting harm.

In superhero stories, killing is always a choice. No one has ever died from being hit too hard by Spider-Man. Even the Hulk's rampages are completely and totally bloodless. Superheroes are violent, but it's all Tom & Jerry violence, which I guess makes it okay that they can't share a room for five minutes without trying to murder one another.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
SpookyMask Since: Jan, 2011
#104640: Jul 5th 2019 at 12:59:33 AM

Yeaaaaaaaaah, which doesn't really make sense unless they have super power to deal non lethal damage only D&D 3.5 style tongue

(its especially ridiculous when apparently only one who can kill supervillains are superheroes. Especially when the said superheroes don't actually have super powers and just have guns. Like if Punisher could kill Joker, then why not just random police officer, citizen or criminal with gun? Why the heck everyone gives Batman shit for not killing Joker when the government should honestly just execute the guy if they wanted to considering that superhero comic government is shady and dark anyway?)

Edited by SpookyMask on Jul 5th 2019 at 11:00:24 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#104641: Jul 5th 2019 at 1:00:59 AM

Yeah, it's not really Batman's responsibility to kill the Joker. He's always almost literally gift-wrapping the Clown Prince of Crime for the authorities.

It's not like the Joker has some "only Batman can kill me" superpower.

And of course, the one time the government does try to execute the Joker, it turns out to be for a crime he actually didn't commit.

Edited by M84 on Jul 5th 2019 at 4:02:46 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#104642: Jul 5th 2019 at 1:04:54 AM

Like whenever someone whines about the Joker, I want Bats to go “Not my job. If ya want someone to talk too, talk to the government.”

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#104643: Jul 5th 2019 at 1:10:46 AM

IIRC, there was a really complicated Joker story about that. Joker was set to be executed for a crime he actually didn't commit, putting Batman in the tough spot of having to prove his innocence for that crime. While the police's general attitude towards his concern was "I mean, even if you're right, who f*cking cares? It's the Joker. Let him fry."

Or something along those lines. I only know the story second-hand.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 5th 2019 at 2:11:32 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#104644: Jul 5th 2019 at 1:16:02 AM

Gordon outright asks Batman to let the Joker be executed even if there's doubt he actually committed this particular crime. In all fairness to Gordon, this is after shit like the Joker paralyzing Barbara and killing Sarah.

Batman of course refuses. In part because it would mean letting the actual murderer get away with it.

Edited by M84 on Jul 5th 2019 at 4:17:38 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#104645: Jul 5th 2019 at 1:21:45 AM

At some point one would think other supervillains would consider the Joker too dangerous to be kept alive, from either moral or pragmatic motives. Against Poison Ivy or Mister Freeze the Joker should be flattened easily.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#104646: Jul 5th 2019 at 1:26:30 AM

Poison Ivy would have a personal stake too, considering her on-and-off friendship / quasi-romance with Harley Quinn.

But anyway...yeah, in a lot of superhero media intent to kill is always the most important thing. A story rarely becomes realistic when it comes to stuff like this. Even times when it does seem like realistic consequences have occurred such as the Punisher's bullets hitting a bystander, they almost always turn out to be faked.

Or that time the Hulk supposedly threw a bus during a fight with the Abomination that ended up killing a bunch of people. One of whom was the son of the woman who would become Mess of the Gamma Corp — the entire reason she let herself be exposed to gamma radiation treatment and joined the Corp was so she could get revenge on the Hulk for her son's death. At the end of the story arc she finds footage of the attack that reveals it was the Abomination who actually threw the bus, not the Hulk. This was particularly galling to her since the gamma treatment made half of her body look like the Abomination.

Edited by M84 on Jul 5th 2019 at 4:31:33 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#104647: Jul 5th 2019 at 4:45:05 AM

[up]Marvel already did this with Hulk vs Tony fight, we are kinda suposed to think that nobody really bad happen in that fight and civil war then went "didnt happen", maybe because it kinda harsh to talk about acountability about that case.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#104648: Jul 5th 2019 at 5:16:25 AM

Interesting that this conversation has come up, given the fact that Civil War is predicated on the idea that the Avengers' battles have, in fact, resulted in lots of civilian casualties.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#104649: Jul 5th 2019 at 5:20:45 AM

[up]Because is also in the asumption that is because the scale of the battle(Ultron and the Chitauri) and not because negligence of Avenger itself.

Is pretty much a police investigation on a rain: are the casualty part of the deal or the haven being lazy.

The answer is both actually.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#104650: Jul 5th 2019 at 6:31:44 AM

Al Ewing's Immortal Hulk run has confirmed that people have indeed died in Hulk's rampages. Whether Marvel will keep this or retcon it later remains to be seen.


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