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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#104526: Jul 3rd 2019 at 1:48:55 PM

I'd be up for Hugh Jackman as Kraven, using his original Australian accent for a villainous Crocodile Dundee pastiche. (he's Russian-Australian of course).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#104527: Jul 3rd 2019 at 3:19:44 PM

It's come up before, but yeah. Kravel doesn't really work thematically as an adversary for T'Challa, at least in comparison to any number of T'Challa's actual enemies they could use. There was a comic that put them together once, but that doesn't make them well matched overall.

I like the idea of Kraven vs Spidey in this continuity, as Spider-Man's primary fault in the MCU is that despite his great strength his inexperience and occasional bouts of foolishness and impulsiveness - followed by effectiveness and vital intelligence once he gets his act together. Whereas Kraven is the opposite: a normal man with a great skill and complete relentlessness at what he does. One of Peter's primary traits is that he wants to live his own life, but Kraven can be anywhere, and is the kind of enemy that will outright prevent him from doing so through sheer persistence.

Something I just realized: as of Avengers: Endgame, C-list superhero sidekick Falcon has appeared in more theatrical films than frickin' Robin the granddaddy of all sidekicks and partner to the most popular superhero of all time. I just find that very amusing.

Which is a shame, because I think Tim Drake's plot and general concept as Robin is very adaptable to film - though that's also stymied by the fact that DC seems unwilling to put Tim in any adaptations (despite pushing him in the comics relatively recently).

I guess we'll always have Homecoming.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 3rd 2019 at 3:21:58 AM

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#104528: Jul 3rd 2019 at 5:08:55 PM

Question: Kraven doesn't have powers, right?

How DOES he manage to fight someone like Spiderman?

Kaze ni Nare!
Cross (Don’t ask)
#104529: Jul 3rd 2019 at 5:10:59 PM

Depends on the version. The powerless tend to rely on traps and planning.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#104530: Jul 3rd 2019 at 5:11:31 PM

Weapons, dirty tactics, and drugs to give his body the edge.

Agent Venom was hunted down by him for several days to the brink of exhaustion.

Kaine the Scarlet Spider is even somewhat scared of the guy.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 3rd 2019 at 5:12:18 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#104531: Jul 3rd 2019 at 5:23:33 PM

I wonder how many times we'll have villains using drugs to give themselves super powers.

Like, I'm thinking back to Nuke and Bushmaster.

Kaze ni Nare!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#104532: Jul 3rd 2019 at 5:26:54 PM

He uses indigenous herbs brand drugs.

He’s a more natural guy.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 3rd 2019 at 5:27:08 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#104533: Jul 3rd 2019 at 5:30:12 PM

> I wonder how many times we'll have villains using drugs to

In a word :Never,substance abuse quickly changes the age rating,Disney's higher ups or Marvel's would not permit it

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#104534: Jul 3rd 2019 at 5:34:55 PM

Captain America uses drugs. Be like Captain America, and abuse substances. evil grin

Also both T'challa and Killmonger via the heart-shaped herb.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jul 3rd 2019 at 5:36:05 AM

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#104535: Jul 3rd 2019 at 5:36:02 PM

[up][up][up] Bushmaster used natural herbs too. It was still treated like substance abuse.

Kaze ni Nare!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#104536: Jul 3rd 2019 at 5:51:17 PM

The thing that Bushmaster did in the Luke Cage series where he paralyzed Luke with poison and then dropped him in the river is a lot like how Kraven operates, except he has a whole arsenal of poisons, tech, and disorienting tricks to aid the hunt while he picks off his enemies piece by piece.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#104537: Jul 3rd 2019 at 6:03:50 PM

In essence, Kraven is a deadlier version of Bushmaster. He uses elaborate traps and animals to aid him, too.

The use of herbs on Kraven's part is said to tank his health, though. The extent of which varies, but Kraven's most iconic story, Kraven's Last Hunt, works on the idea that he's living on borrowed time as his entire organ structure is starting to collapse due the abuse his body took from the herb consumption and fighting goddamn Spider-Man. The very same story is entirely built on the concept of Kraven being mentally unwell though ("They said my mother was insane." being Kraven's Arc Words), so it's possible it was just his own delusions acting up.

Edited by Gaon on Jul 3rd 2019 at 6:04:56 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#104538: Jul 3rd 2019 at 6:07:51 PM

Kraven falls under the same bullshit that allows Batman to punch way way above his weight class.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#104539: Jul 3rd 2019 at 6:09:58 PM

If they introduce Kraven, I wonder if he will be a "normal" human with Charles Atlas Superpower or a superhuman in an explicit way.

I imagine that for the third film, Spiderman will already be very superior to a super soldier, so it would be strange for a "normal human" to give him a fight.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Jul 3rd 2019 at 6:11:47 AM

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#104540: Jul 3rd 2019 at 6:16:02 PM

[up] It really feels weird how so many villains in the MCU are technically the underdogs when you look at it a certain way. Why people want their heroes to be THIS overwhelmingly powerful, I don't know.

(shudders in recollection of heroes like The Flash)

Edited by GNinja on Jul 3rd 2019 at 1:17:04 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
Cross (Don’t ask)
#104541: Jul 3rd 2019 at 6:18:57 PM

[up][up] If they go with normal Kraven, then I doubt they'll go the C.A.S. route.

Going off that hypothetical, I can see them making going for veteran hunter that initially has the upper hand due to his tactics until Peter catches on. Afterwards it's about showing how outmatched Kraven is. Then the rest is about Kraven stepping his game by any means for another shot at Spidey. Thinking about I wonder if they'll bring in Calypso as well.

Edited by Cross on Jul 3rd 2019 at 9:23:16 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#104542: Jul 3rd 2019 at 6:19:38 PM

@Bocaj: Batman doesn't have the sweet superpowered herbs to give him a valid excuse, though.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#104543: Jul 3rd 2019 at 6:32:10 PM

Anyway an experienced Spiderman will be at a level far superior to a super soldier, so it will be strange that a normal human will give him too many problems.

Unless they turn him to a jobber.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Jul 3rd 2019 at 6:33:47 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#104544: Jul 3rd 2019 at 6:37:10 PM

Ultimate Spider-Man had fun with Kraven, showing just how a normal human would fare against a superhuman like Spidey. After easily dodging a few blows from Kraven, Peter knocks him out with one punch. Then dismisses him as a "showbiz phony".

Then Kraven got so angry at this (self-inflicted) humiliation that he went through genetic engineering to become a werewolf like monster. Which still didn't work out. To add insult to injury, he never really gets to actually fight Peter again.

Edited by M84 on Jul 3rd 2019 at 9:39:47 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#104545: Jul 3rd 2019 at 6:39:31 PM

[up][up] And that's why Kraven's not a normal human.

[up] Isn't that from Spectacular?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Cross (Don’t ask)
#104546: Jul 3rd 2019 at 6:40:13 PM

Wasn't Kraven pretty much a joke there? Vaguely remember him getting arrested quickly once he did power up.[nja]

Edited by Cross on Jul 3rd 2019 at 9:41:26 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#104547: Jul 3rd 2019 at 6:40:13 PM

[up][up]I'm talking about the Ultimate comics.

[up]Yep, he got arrested after getting his powers because they were illegal genetic tampering.

Edited by M84 on Jul 3rd 2019 at 9:40:42 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#104548: Jul 3rd 2019 at 6:40:46 PM

[up] Oh yeah that's where it originally came from.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#104549: Jul 3rd 2019 at 6:40:58 PM

[up][up] That just sounds pointlessly mean spirited.

Kaze ni Nare!
Cross (Don’t ask)
#104550: Jul 3rd 2019 at 6:43:37 PM

Spectacular handled it a bit better IMO. Kraven was shown to be legitimate badass in his own right, just not at Peter's level. Even afterwards Peter won by being smarter and Kraven not being as experienced in his new form.


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