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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#104301: Jun 25th 2019 at 6:37:23 PM

[up]I'm guessing it is a pretty bad one?

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#104302: Jun 25th 2019 at 6:38:52 PM

Well, if you were a fan of Magneto, or a fan of consistent character writing...yeah it was bad.

Morrison's run did at least bring attention to the fact that most mutants have really shitty mutations. There's Beak, for one thing.

Disgusted, but not surprised
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#104303: Jun 25th 2019 at 6:38:52 PM

Beak has the brittle skeleton of a bird, and the head of a bird, and that's it. No feathers, no wings, can't fly. He has, literally, all of the weaknesses of a bird.

My various fanfics.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#104304: Jun 25th 2019 at 6:39:32 PM

[up] This is contrasted with his future grandson, also called Beak. Tito has all of the strengths of a bird.

There's one particularly powerful scene in which an entire mob of mutants with awful mutations storm the facility with the rumored mutant "cure".

Heck, even Beast was tempted to take the cure, since his mutation had progressed to the point that he had more feline features, including paws. As he told Wolverine, he couldn't even play piano anymore.

Edited by M84 on Jun 25th 2019 at 9:42:03 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#104305: Jun 25th 2019 at 6:40:27 PM

To swerve the topic more onto the MCU proper, the Morlocks would actually be a interesting direction to take the MCU mutants, given they were unexplored in the Foxverse.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#104306: Jun 25th 2019 at 6:42:04 PM

[up][up] He’d do well in Terraformars.

Oooof your Mutation preventing you from playing the piano. That’s fucked up.

Edited by slimcoder on Jun 25th 2019 at 6:43:04 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#104307: Jun 25th 2019 at 6:42:38 PM

[up][up]They'd have to do something about Leech, though.

Edited by M84 on Jun 25th 2019 at 9:43:09 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#104308: Jun 25th 2019 at 7:17:36 PM

Okay I'm just now hearing about this but has the young 7 year old actress for Morgan Stark being harassed or bullied recently?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#104310: Jun 25th 2019 at 7:23:56 PM

[up][up] I couldn't find anything specific, but this news makes me very sad. sad

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#104311: Jun 25th 2019 at 7:36:30 PM

[up][up]He's one of the main Morlock characters in the comics.

It just wouldn't feel right for the MCU Morlocks to not have him be a part of the group.

I guess if the MCU version is completely divorced from whatever FOX did, there'd be no issue with their version of Leech actually looking like his comics counterpart.

Edited by M84 on Jun 25th 2019 at 10:38:25 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#104312: Jun 25th 2019 at 7:45:52 PM

Oh, I thought you were talking about some sort of problem with him that needs to be addressed. I definitely think he should be here, yeah, and I don't think Fox's portrayal of the character is that much of a problem given it is fairly distinct from his comic self in both appearance and character.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#104313: Jun 25th 2019 at 8:11:05 PM

Okay. Sure. But why are you totally fine with Captain Marvel shooting laser breams? Why is that not a problem? We love your laser beams, Carol! But we hate Scott's laser beams! Scott is bad because he has lasers, but Carol is awesome because she has lasers!

For one thing, Scott can't control his laser beams unlike Carol.

The other thing is that most mutants have small powers. It's just that X-Men stories tend to focus on, well, the ones who don't.

This is an argument that keeps getting brought up but has never actually been shown in the X-Men. The books treat it as though mutants like Magneto and that kid who could kill just by existing are the norm and virtually every mutant we've seen has powers with lethal applications.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#104314: Jun 25th 2019 at 8:11:45 PM

[up][up][up][up]and [up]X6

....They need to leave that girl alone.

If this becomes another Jake Lloyd thing, I'm gonna prescribe someone getting they skull cracked open until lessons are learned.

Because she's 7 years old, and that shit should not be tolerated.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Jun 25th 2019 at 9:12:25 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#104315: Jun 25th 2019 at 8:12:38 PM

[up][up]Which is one of the few good things about Morrison's run: it actually showed mutants with crappy mutations that weren't particularly useful in battle.

Edited by M84 on Jun 25th 2019 at 11:12:58 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#104316: Jun 25th 2019 at 8:45:02 PM

Starting the mutant thing small, with mutants, most of whom aren’t going to be fighting crime any time soon, along with the core five X-Men, is probably the best place you can go as a result. Since it allows phobia and fear to germinate in a way that might seem sadly predictable.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#104317: Jun 25th 2019 at 10:32:19 PM

I remember now that the Strong Female Protagonist comic portrays the issue more cohesively. In its setting, everyone with powers received them during the same Mass Super-Empowering Event, but the effects widely varied. Some came out the same but with superpowers, others were transformed into Petting-Zoo People or rock people and so on. So "biodynamics" who look like humans are generally more accepted than "dynamorphs" with altered appearances. It's also a direct plot point that most dynamorphs don't want to be superheroes, with the main superhero lead having a minor crisis upon seeing they would rather just return to a semblance of normal life.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jun 25th 2019 at 10:34:26 AM

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#104318: Jun 26th 2019 at 2:33:17 AM

Is that not how it works though? This always seemed very ill explained to me. Are mutants NOT the next stage in human evolution? Is it confirmed that mutant genes aren't dominant and unpowered humans won't ever truly vanish?

I think it's a huge case of Depending on the Writer; some comic really do go with that idea, but it doesn't match at all with how Evolution works in real life; Evolution doesn't work by stage according to the theory, it's more like life forms randomly evolve, and the one best-fitted to survive the environment stick. To give an exemple: yellow canary birds initially didn't really exist because yellow is an absolutely terrible camouflage in the wild and they died quickly due to being spot by predators; when humans begin keeping them as pets, yellow was appreciated due to making them look pretty, thus allowing this particular color to propagate in captivity when it couldn't have possible survive in the natural state.

Realistically (relatively speaking), that should be how Mutants work, so as long as society is still safe for normal humans, they shouldn't disappear to be replaced by Mutants.

Edited by Theokal3 on Jun 26th 2019 at 11:38:48 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#104319: Jun 26th 2019 at 2:36:44 AM

Yeah, the whole "stages" thing is not how evolution works.

People forget that "fittest" in the context of evolution doesn't mean anything besides how good lifeforms are at passing on genes to the next generation.

It's also a crapshoot whether the children of mutants inherit the X-gene. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Sometimes their powers are the same as their parents, sometimes they're completely different.

Graydon Creed for example was born to two mutant parents but was not a mutant himself. And yes, this led to him having an unhappy childhood which informed his later genocidal worldview — especially since his parents were Sabretooth and Mystique two of the worst people in the Marvelverse.

On the other end, there's Raze, a mutant from the future who was the son of Mystique and Wolverine. Unlike his half-brother Graydon, he not only was a mutant, but he also inherited both of his parents' powers.

Edited by M84 on Jun 26th 2019 at 5:40:26 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#104320: Jun 26th 2019 at 2:40:17 AM

Struggle/War is the crucible of evolution.

[up] Irony.

Edited by slimcoder on Jun 26th 2019 at 2:40:53 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#104321: Jun 26th 2019 at 2:41:15 AM

[up]War has nothing to do with evolution. That's treading way too close to Social Darwinist bullshit.

Edit:

And one of Mystique's other kids, Nightcrawler, was also a mutant but he didn't inherit her powers. Instead, he inherited his father's powers (and demonic-looking appearance to boot).

Edited by M84 on Jun 26th 2019 at 5:45:02 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#104322: Jun 26th 2019 at 2:43:07 AM

Yeah but its such a cool saying. tongue

I'm also reminded of how the ultimate alien forms from Ben 10: Ultimate Alien worked by apparently placing the aliens in a simulation of them experiencing thousands of years of war & conflict enabling them to transcend into more powerful battle ready forms.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#104323: Jun 26th 2019 at 2:46:46 AM

[up]Yep; apparently the writers of Ben 10 Ultimate Alien did some research on Evolution to explain their concept, so kudos to them for that.

But yeah, point is, Evolution isn't destiny; there aren't "stage" meant to succeed each other, it's more like random diversifying and let's see which species survive.

Edited by Theokal3 on Jun 26th 2019 at 11:48:16 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#104324: Jun 26th 2019 at 2:48:31 AM

The only thing that evolves in war is technology and.. ways of killing the enemy

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#104325: Jun 26th 2019 at 2:54:46 AM

Well that explains how the aliens get stronger through such simulations.

Humongosaur went from just being a dinosaur man who can grow bigger to losing the size-shifting but gaining a hard spiked shell & somehow being able to transform his hands into guns to fire bone projectiles.

Echo Echo went from being a small guy who can super scream & duplicate to growing taller, becoming more robotic looking, & losing the duplication ability but gaining the ability to super scream even stronger on pods all over his body he can detach and control telepathically.

Edited by slimcoder on Jun 26th 2019 at 2:55:17 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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