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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#103901: Jun 16th 2019 at 2:55:36 PM

Greed? Weird but okay.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#103902: Jun 16th 2019 at 3:09:09 PM

Okay I can't find the entire exchange (if someone can that be nice) but luckily Riri's trope page here has the page where she stares at her teacher who tells her she can't be Tony Stark out of exasperation.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/Ironheart

Its the link in the middle of Memetic Psychopath. Don't worry it only links to the page itself, nothing else.

Edited by slimcoder on Jun 16th 2019 at 3:10:17 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#103903: Jun 16th 2019 at 3:09:23 PM

So uh, Father's Day, huh. Boy howdy has the MCU not had the most flattering of track records with dads. So uh, what good-ish dads are there? Hmm...Scott, maybe Clint, Yondu was a mixed bag but he had his moments, (ENDGAME SPOILERS AHEAD) Tony Stark...any notable good dads in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. or the Netflix shows?

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#103904: Jun 16th 2019 at 3:12:29 PM

Sociopath? Thats dumb. They're dumb.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
MrSeyker Since: Apr, 2011
#103905: Jun 16th 2019 at 3:12:48 PM

Here's the entire exchange courtesy of google and tumblr.

Not the best quality, it's kinda hard to read, but you get the whole thing.

Edited by MrSeyker on Jun 16th 2019 at 3:14:46 AM

MrSeyker Since: Apr, 2011
#103906: Jun 16th 2019 at 3:14:00 PM

Sorry about the double post, I thought I had clicked preview both times. I was very confused.

Edited by MrSeyker on Jun 16th 2019 at 3:15:21 AM

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#103907: Jun 16th 2019 at 5:03:26 PM

I'd say greed and jealousy go hand in hand. Besides, that particular emotion doesn't really fit anywhere else.

The legend has returned.
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#103908: Jun 16th 2019 at 5:13:04 PM

As long as those things aren't played straight, an Ironheart movie could work.

Edited by Blueace on Jun 16th 2019 at 8:13:45 AM

Wake me up at your own risk.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#103909: Jun 16th 2019 at 5:20:43 PM

It’s spite

The name of the emotion is spite. She wants someone to tell her no so she can do it anyway out of spite

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#103910: Jun 16th 2019 at 5:22:38 PM

awww

thats adorable

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#103911: Jun 16th 2019 at 5:24:13 PM

She's also a victim of gang violence. As kid a family member or friend of hers was killed during a drive by shooting she witnessed.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#103912: Jun 16th 2019 at 5:33:29 PM

I'm not sure why Bendis took this route. If he wanted it to be out of spite, he could have, you know, had people genuinely think she couldn't do it.

Oh God! Natural light!
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#103913: Jun 16th 2019 at 5:43:05 PM

Sounds like an attempt from Bendis to be too clever for his own good. He wanted a subversion, but couldn't come up with an interesting outcome for it.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#103914: Jun 16th 2019 at 5:48:50 PM

Basically, Riri wanted to invoke the trope where a kid has their dreams shat on, only to grow up and prove everyone wrong (do we have a trope page for that?), and she got upset at her teacher not playing into the narrative.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#103915: Jun 16th 2019 at 6:11:33 PM

Don't you hate it when a kid casted you as a villain for their 10 years long fantasy?

Wake me up at your own risk.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#103916: Jun 16th 2019 at 7:50:35 PM

I found the theme of Tony Stark. What are some other numbers from musicals that jump out to you as themes for MCU characters?

My various fanfics.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#103917: Jun 16th 2019 at 8:17:09 PM

In some ways, Riri actually is a perfect successor to Tony Stark. At least in terms of being a socially messed up human being.

Disgusted, but not surprised
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#103918: Jun 16th 2019 at 8:35:32 PM

I’ve heard really good things about Ewing’s run; I need to check it out.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#103919: Jun 17th 2019 at 7:48:50 AM

That exchange actually made sense to me. Like, I haven't actually read any of Ironheart's comics because I fell out of comics just as she was starting to become a thing. But reading those three pages, they kinda clicked for me.

Riri was disappointed because she'd built up this whole confrontation in her head beforehand. Have you ever done that thing where you know there's going to be an fight over something really important, so you run through the matter in your mind over and over? Like, maybe with your spouse or your job or something. And then you get there and the other person or persons are just like, "Cool, you're right," and there's no argument?

And then you kinda feel disappointed 'cause you prepared, like, an entire speech's worth of arguments that are now totally wasted on your point's complete lack of opposition? Like, I came in here expecting a shouting match and I'm glad there's not a shouting match but also I was totally prepped for a shouting match and I don't know what to do with that energy now.

She's doing that with her life's ambitions. She was 100% expecting to have her dream shot down and didn't really know how to process the teacher's unapologetic acceptance. She came in here to have a fight and the teacher's not fighting her!

The teacher, meanwhile, recognizes that Riri's weirdly disappointed about not being talked down to. She doesn't want to take back her acceptance of Riri's (or anyone's) life goals, but she also doesn't want Riri to walk away underwhelmed. She doesn't want this to negatively impact Riri's life ambitions the way that a strong negative emotional response often can.

So she compromises. Rather than have the fight Riri came here for, she challenges her instead on an unreasonable life goal. It avoids undermining the idea she just stated: that girls like Riri can be scientists and politicians and whatever they want to be. It narrows the scope; most little girls (and boys, for that matter) won't grow up to be one of the seven most brilliant super-scientists on the face of the planet Earth.

It's the difference between saying "You could be a spiritual leader" versus saying "You could be Mahatma Gandhi, specifically." You probably won't be Gandhi. No one should reasonably expect you to be Gandhi.

So Riri takes that to heart and sets her life goal on being Tony Stark rather than simply trying to be a talented science person. An unreasonable life goal is established, setting the stage for the hero to beat the odds and achieve it.

Maybe not the best way to go about it, but I get what Bendis was going for there. Though as I write this I do have a problem with the premise of using a male character as a measuring stick for a female character's success. But that is kinda the nature of the beast with any Distaff Counterpart Legacy Character.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 17th 2019 at 8:50:22 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#103920: Jun 17th 2019 at 7:56:23 AM

I mean, I get what you’re saying, but as a driving motivation, it’s kind of petty, and not in a good way.

While I can understand if Bendis felt like playing the whole thing straight was a bit cliche, this is a rather awkward solution. Plus...I dunno, having a marginalized kid wanting to craft this specific narrative seems iffy, like it’s saying that black people make up racism?

Mind you, I don’t think that was intentional, and she IS just a kid, but I don’t think it’s a good idea regardless.

Oh God! Natural light!
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#103921: Jun 17th 2019 at 8:02:17 AM

It feels like the motivation for a super-villain, not a hero. Unless the character learns to do something not out of spite (which given everything I’ve heard, the character has doubled down on the spite), then that’s a villain.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#103922: Jun 17th 2019 at 8:07:41 AM

If handled poorly I could see Ironheart quickly become a scrappy character if she was added to the Cinematic Universe,though it is possible to avoid the scrappy status if Marvel chooses the right director

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#103923: Jun 17th 2019 at 8:09:53 AM

For Riri to be Tony Stark, she'd have to develop personal demons like alcoholism, survivor's guilt, rampant paranoia, a self-destructive streak, PTSD, and a tendency to piss everyone around her off.

Edited by M84 on Jun 17th 2019 at 11:10:40 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#103924: Jun 17th 2019 at 8:23:52 AM

Well she already has PTSD in the comics from nearly being Thanos’d

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#103925: Jun 17th 2019 at 8:51:34 AM

Yeah, Riri is more than just those three pages. Her stepfather and friend were killed in a drive by and she's very socially awkward. Plus, during a fight with Thanos, she was beaten badly and got PSTD.

Edited by alliterator on Jun 17th 2019 at 8:51:52 AM


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