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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#103676: Jun 11th 2019 at 1:00:32 PM

Much like the MCU's weaker films, even at its worst the Netflix shows are still watchable and have their good moments, so personally I wholeheartedly recommend binging the entire Netflix MCU library when you get the chance.

For those who don't follow stuff, the recommended watching order is Daredevil S1 -> Jessica Jones S1 -> Daredevil S2 -> Luke Cage S1 -> Iron Fist S1 -> Defenders -> Punisher S1 -> Jessica Jones S2 -> Luke Cage S2 -> Iron Fist S2 -> Daredevil S3 -> Punisher S2 -> Jessica Jones S3.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Jun 11th 2019 at 4:00:43 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#103677: Jun 11th 2019 at 1:08:27 PM

Luke Cage has a lot of flaws in its first season mainly centered around the fact that Luke's indestructible. It's a tension-killer that the season doesn't really know how to work around. So he spends the first half of the season being ineffectual since if he actually did anything he would end the plot in two seconds. Then the second half introduces invulnerable-puncturing super-bullets that defeat Luke's invulnerability for the sake of threatening him. This is a plot point so stupid that the first episode of the second season writes them out of existence forever.

Despite these flaws, however, the first season still has a lot of high points, particularly in its first half. There's just so much to enjoy here that I recommend it despite its flaws.

Luke Cage's second season, meanwhile, is pretty much solid gold. The writers take a more clever approach to working around Luke's invulnerability, both in terms of threatening him and with a more complex plot that he can't reasonably punch his way through. From start to finish, season two of Luke Cage is easily one of the Netflix shows' best. I would say second only to Jessica Jones's first season.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#103678: Jun 11th 2019 at 1:08:40 PM

Also, I heard Runaways Season 2 was good and Cloak and Dagger was great.

And EVERYONE SHOULD WATCH Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. GODDAMMIT.

Edited by alliterator on Jun 11th 2019 at 1:09:03 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#103679: Jun 11th 2019 at 1:15:26 PM

Its amazing to me how Skye Daisy went from being reviled to loved.

Thats the power of writing and also revealing she was a comic character all along.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#103680: Jun 11th 2019 at 1:20:56 PM

I never hated her myself, but yeah, she's come a long way huh?

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#103681: Jun 11th 2019 at 1:25:44 PM

I also never hated her but that was the impression I got from others

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#103682: Jun 11th 2019 at 1:28:30 PM

The fact that one episode revealed that she was literally named "Mary-Sue" at her old orphanage shows the writers were at least aware how Daisy would come across to the audience at first. By the time she actually got superpowers, most people were on board with it because of how much character development she had gone through by that point.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Jun 11th 2019 at 4:29:56 AM

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#103683: Jun 11th 2019 at 1:33:17 PM

I kind of disliked her (hate's a bit of a strong word), though mostly because she was out-of-place in the organization (being an outsider to SHIELD), kind of hogged the spotlight, and a few other problems.

She did get better. There was an exact moment where I decided I liked her and felt a dramatic increase in the show's quality. I can't quite say what episode it was, it was somewhere near the end of the first season.

Leviticus 19:34
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#103684: Jun 11th 2019 at 1:38:54 PM

For me, it's the moment when she learns Ward is Hydra. She discovers Eric Koenig's dead body, realizes Ward killed him, panics, and then steels herself and pretends to be fine and then fucking tricks a master spy.

When she's at the diner, stalling, and then she just looks at him with disgust, revealing she knows and says, "Hail Hydra." That's the moment.

And then it gets better than Ward says he genuinely loves her and she goes, "...I'm going to throw up."

You want to talk about sick, abusive love? Ward beats Thanos every time.

Edited by alliterator on Jun 11th 2019 at 1:39:05 AM

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#103685: Jun 11th 2019 at 2:25:05 PM

Don't forget how Ward got tricked into killing his girlfriend by the heroes, and he still wasn't portrayed as sympathetic for it. And related, Hive's "desire for a connection" led to him trying to kill off most of the world in order to mind-control the remainder. AoS never pulls any punches on terrible relationships.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
ComicFan Since: Sep, 2016
Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#103687: Jun 11th 2019 at 4:26:11 PM

I also never hated her but that was the impression I got from others
Yeah, I seem to remember a lot of that early on. Meanwhile, I hated Ward instead, and got to feel vindicated later.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#103688: Jun 11th 2019 at 4:26:54 PM

everyone should watch at least one episode of the Inhumans

evil grin

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
123tbones Since: Aug, 2015
#103689: Jun 11th 2019 at 4:33:43 PM

[up]Is there at least 1 episode from that show that is bearable? Also can we assume that show exists in one of the alternate timelines that was established in Endgame? I mean, I think that's how it works.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#103690: Jun 11th 2019 at 7:30:59 PM

I heard that the season finale of Inhumans was better than the rest of the series (though that doesn't necessarily make it good), but I wouldn't know since I stopped watching around episode 3 when I couldn't stand it anymore. The Inhumans show is the worst thing to come out of the MCU, bar none.

Season 2 only has David Tennant for one episode and the villain of the season is...kind of bland, so the flaws are way more apparent.

Honestly, I felt that was the weakest episode of the season. It actually made me think twice about how good Kilgrave even was as a character, he was just so lame there.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#103691: Jun 12th 2019 at 6:08:04 AM

Kilgrave is kinda lame. That's part of the horror of his character. He has limitless potential. He could rule the world in a heartbeat. But all he wants is to dominate and rape on an individual level.

He is an utterly gross human being, as befits the villain of a strictly personal story like Jessica's.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 12th 2019 at 7:09:28 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#103692: Jun 12th 2019 at 7:52:26 AM

Graviton is another villain with the same combo of power and pettiness. He's basically to gravity what Magneto is to magnetism. In other words, he has absolute power over one of the four fundamental forces of the universe. But he never really uses that power for anything except to hit on women.

Disgusted, but not surprised
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#103693: Jun 12th 2019 at 8:13:15 AM

MCU Graviton, I think, was much better. He was General Talbot, who had been tortured and brainwashed by Hydra, but was now trying to make things right by trying to protect the Earth from aliens...except he had also become more power hungry and craved more Gravitonium from the Earth, which he didn't realize would have cracked the planet apart.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#103694: Jun 12th 2019 at 8:25:13 AM

Funnily enough, there was an episode of The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes where Kilgrave took control of Iron Man and used him to take over the Earth. His reign lasted a good while too, about a month within the series. Being a kids show, it obviously couldn't show Kilgrave being a sadistic rapist and torturer.

That storyline was also based on the Emperor Doom story from the comics, where Doctor Doom realizes that since Kilgrave has mind control powers, he's going to kidnap him and use them to his full potential. IIRC, Doom had a strong enough will to resist his powers or something. It's a pretty entertaining story, since Doom succeeds and he slowly realizes that having complete control over the planet is boring as hell. He practically allows the Avengers stop him, as he's desperate for an actual challenge again.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#103695: Jun 12th 2019 at 8:40:21 AM

It really would have been easy to take over the world (or effectively so) if Kilgrave really wanted to: he could walk into Stark Industries one morning and be in charge of some of the most powerful people and organizations on the planet by nightfall.

The fact that a guy like that is instead a listless - but no less sociopathic - hedonist just adds to his “charm.” Instead of using you for a purpose, he’ll use you for every passing whim and desire he has, discard you to your traumatized (if you’re lucky) life when you’re done, and there’s nothing you can do about it.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 12th 2019 at 8:49:46 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#103696: Jun 12th 2019 at 8:44:17 AM

[up][up]It's a combination of Doom having strong willpower and a really strong god complex.

It's so strong that in another storyline he resisted both a Hate Plague and the Truth Wave that was created to counter it. That's how powerful his will and his ability to delude himself is.

Edited by M84 on Jun 12th 2019 at 11:45:26 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#103697: Jun 12th 2019 at 8:46:52 AM

Killgrave once killed a restaurant full of people because he told them to stop breathing so he could eat his eggs in silence.

Edited by alliterator on Jun 12th 2019 at 8:50:33 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#103698: Jun 12th 2019 at 8:53:27 AM

He's basically Anthony Fremont.

Edited by M84 on Jun 12th 2019 at 11:53:48 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#103699: Jun 12th 2019 at 8:56:22 AM

Doom didn't just resist Killgrave (others have done that).

He did so while Killgrave was plugged into Doom's own machine that was boosting his power, while within spitting distance of him (because he deliberately walked into the main chamber in order to give Killgrave a chance to take control of him, and show him how weak he was).

There's No-Sell, and then there's DOOM.

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#103700: Jun 12th 2019 at 8:57:18 AM

What I really like about Netflix's Kilgrave is that David Tennant brings a likable charm to the character.

He's basically a rape elemental and it's very common for such characters to be presented like either suave vampiric figures or eldritch creepers from beyond time and space. But Tennant's Kilgrave is just some dude. He's witty and petty and just full of personality. If you didn't know better, you might want to have a drink with the guy.

Which he would spike, metaphorically speaking, because he is a rape elemental.

But that's the point. Tennant's Kilgrave is not presented like the eldritch spawn of Hitler and Satan, crawling from the shadows to devour your consent. Like most actual rapists, he's just some guy. Some guy who rapes.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 12th 2019 at 9:58:49 AM

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