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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
I just find it weird that someone could look at the scene where Natasha is talking to the remaining Avengers and is so determined to prevent anything bad from happening that she sent Rocket and Nebula to investigate a infected garbage scow and asked Okoye what they should do about an underwater tremor and think "Oh yes, there has been zero crime for five years." There clearly has been trouble, but Natasha and the rest have taken care of it.
I too find irritating this constant insistence that films must browbeat us with the villain being morally wrong or else they are implicitly condoning them. I've said my peace on this before, and I've realized that it's pointless to debate a bad faith argument.
Edited by Fighteer on Jun 11th 2019 at 1:00:02 PM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"You shouldn't NEED a big shiny reason to know that ultra genocide is wrong. That should be easy enough to figure out because you're a human being with empathy.
My various fanfics.I mean, not every human being has empathy.
But seriously, yeah, taking time to browbeat the audience with a sanctimonious diatribe about why the villain is wrong would just come across as hamfisted. Just let the audience suss things out for themselves.
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!Of course the movie shows that he's a bad person and a monster. He murders Loki, he murders a defenseless Heimdall, he murders so many Asgardians in literally the first second we see him. He was wildly abusive to Nebula, literally ripping her apart piece by piece because she "failed" him, and then called her "a waste of parts." He stole Gamora from her home and murdered her people, he lies and manipulates and murders and destroys everything he touches for his own personal gain, and nowhere is that more obvious than in Endgame. All Thanos wants is for everyone in the universe to tell him he's right, that he's so smart, that he's so much better and nobler than them. And when he finds out that the universe rejects him and his grand plan for the monstrosity that it is, he doesn't even spare a breath to assume that maybe he's in the wrong, his immediate reaction is "Oh, no, it's the universe that's wrong, I'll just murder everyone who ever lived and make a new one."
Gamora couldn't spell it out more plainly that what Thanos felt for her wasn't actually love if when she said the line "THIS ISN'T LOVE", she had turned to the camera and addressed every single person in the audience by name.
If you just open your eyeballs and look at the movie that's presented to you, it becomes painfully obvious that you don't need to sandwich in Steve or Tony or Strange going on a two-minute monologue about how genocide is bad and that people who commit it are bad.
My various fanfics.An omniscient rock that commands love or something said Gamora is wrong and then doubled down on that when the scenario happened again. According to the writers, it’s the Darkest Hour, because Thanos lost “his love” meaning the story says Gamora is wrong.
Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jun 11th 2019 at 11:23:28 AM
Precisely. This is classic Show, Don't Tell. Gamora told us that Thanos didn't love her. But the Soul Gem showed us that he did. By the film's literal measuring stick, Thanos won the debate on whether his abusive possessiveness qualifies as real love.
You may recognize this as precisely the opposite way this should occur. Thanos can tell us that he loves Gamora all he wants, but the film should show us that what he considers love doesn't really count.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 11th 2019 at 12:25:34 PM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Again: it was love, it just wasn't a healthy kind of love. That's clear from the way he treats her and Nebula. But the Soul Stone doesn't give a crap if the love is healthy or abusive; all it requires is "love" and "a soul for a soul." Again: the Soul Stone doesn't judge.
I think we're getting hung up now on semantics.
Edited by alliterator on Jun 11th 2019 at 11:28:48 AM
The Soul Stone is really lax about the whole thing as long as it gets its blood sacrifice.
" She killed herself instead of you killing her? Eh, whatever. I got my sip. Here's a me as a participation trophy."
Forever liveblogging the AvengersAnd again, “Thanos is capable of a form of love and loss” and “Thanos was morally right all along” are two completely different things, and trying to Internet Lu connect them is a huge leap in logic that outright requires ignoring the context of the rest of the film and other characters in order to justify.
You're right. This:
is indeed a semantic argument. You're trying to explain away the verbage used by the film by making a philosophical question about the nature of love.
When what actually happens in the film is that Thanos says he loves Gamora, Gamora says he doesn't, and the Soul Gem then decrees that he truly does. That's it. End of story.
Now, a philosophical debate about the nature of love may be relevant if Endgame had used Vormir's return to call Gamora's sacrifice into question. Perhaps by suggesting that love isn't actually relevant to the sacrifice. Or by rewarding Hawkeye and Black Widow's actions in a way that Thanos, in his eagerness to sacrifice, missed out on.
But that never happens. And so the scene remains what it is. Thanos says he loves Gamora, Gamora says he doesn't, and the Soul Gem then decrees that he truly does. The end.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 11th 2019 at 12:32:33 PM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.There’s nowhere that the film indicates the problem is the Stone itself. Its word is treated as final. When Widow and Hawkeye realize Thanos must’ve earned it by killing Gamora, none of them find it unbelievable that he loved her. Bruce’s attempt to disobey it with the full Infinity Gauntlet doesn’t work. And Cap’s suggested to put the Stone back in its altar where it will demand killing again.
Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jun 11th 2019 at 11:32:20 AM

Uggh again with the "movies never does anything to stop validating Thanos".
Yeeesh I thought we were well past that but I guess it had to come back.
Edited by slimcoder on Jun 11th 2019 at 9:40:55 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."