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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Yeah, Stockholm Syndrome is a hell of a thing.
It probably helps that when Nebula did see Thanos die, it wasn't a moment of triumph or epic battle. It was just watching the execution of a half-dead old man. It probably also didn't help that his last words were the words she had wanted to hear from him for most of her life.
Edited by M84 on Jun 11th 2019 at 12:11:25 AM
Disgusted, but not surprisedHey, twisted as it was, OG Thanos did indeed love Gamora. And his apology to Nebula for his treatment in the moments before his execution do seem genuine. Which of course would have an effect on Nebula at that moment.
Don't forget, she also never really gets her personal revenge agains the old prune. Thor gets the kill (and it's just as hollow for him).
If her cybernetics were made of shoddy material, she'd probably shortcircuit at that moment from the confusing singals firing off in her brain.
Lima Syndrome is also a hell of a thing.
Edited by M84 on Jun 11th 2019 at 12:17:39 AM
Disgusted, but not surprisedWhen I think of how Thanos "loves" his children, I keep thinking of how the CW portrayed Eobard Thawne in The Flash.
In the show, Eobard claims a strong fondness for the people around him, because as a time traveler who took a sledgehammer to their histories he considers himself as having essentially created them. He's close to them, enjoys spending time with them, and feels pride at their actions, but also has little issue discarding them - even personally killing them outright - if they stand in the way of his objectives, because they're ultimately of lesser importance than himself.
He ultimately regards them more as prideful possessions than people. And is his mind, that's love. He tells one of the other characters he sees him as a son, in the same scene he stabs him through the chest.
That's Thanos, I think. He feels pride and attachment to the beings he groomed into devotees. But he "created" them for a purpose, and considers it just if the culmination of their existence is to die for that purpose. His love is an entirely onesided affair, because he does not conceive of relationships that don't end with his ideals being paramount.
"People's emotions are complicated" doesn't really strike me as a strong narrative reason because Endgame doesn't point out the complication. Nebula doesn't remark on how she faltered at the moment that she thought would be her triumph. Nobody else finds it weird that she seems mournful about the man who carved her into pieces. It's just treated as who is, and in the case of her past self, who she always was.
When a story wants to indicate a character is contradictory, it's usually pointed out, such as it being frequently brought up in Guardians 2 how Rocket is abruptly pushing friends away. Setup, for payoff later.
- The Setup: Thanos finally compliments Nebula right before he dies. Nebula mourns him, even though she wanted to see him dead.
- The Payoff: 2014 Thanos finally treats 2014 Nebula was some measure of respect, because he saw what happened in the future — and so even when 2023 Nebula tries to get 2014 Nebula to betray Thanos, she can't, forcing 2023 Nebula to kill 2014 Nebula.
2014 Nebula represents all of the twisted ways in which abused children still feel something (love, a need for validation, etc) for their abusers. She thinks she can't escape because that's what Thanos has driven into her. 2023 Nebula knows better.
2023 Nebula's need to protect her sister overrides any other instinct, though, and she kills her own past self, effectively killing the part of her that she hates.
Edited by alliterator on Jun 10th 2019 at 10:00:14 AM
That's not "show don't tell". It's neither showing nor telling. Rocket snapping at Peter and Peter asking "what is your problem" is showing, in Guardians 2.
The issue that I'm pointing out is that it's inconsistent for Nebula's characterization across the multiple MCU films. In Endgame alone, it's consistent because the movie wants Nebula to be demure and submissive around Thanos, so throughout all of Endgame she's submissive. But in every movie prior, she is chomping at the bit at the idea of slaughtering Thanos. Nebula's arc is multi-film, which is why it's a problem that the reason for her personality shift isn't shown.
Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jun 10th 2019 at 10:05:00 AM
It's actually my problem with Endgame. That and not really being a fan of the middle portion of it.
Thanos is really margianalized in it, which is frustrating considering he was perhaps the most interesting character in Infinity War. (for me anyway)
I guess I would've found it more interesting if some characters who'd survived the snap had been able to have an actual conversation with him. The "ungrateful masses" addendum that he makes to his motive is fitting, but I wish I'd seen him fall into that delusion. He kinda just says it before the final battle.
Kaze ni Nare!That was the same scene where even Ronan was uneasy around Thanos, then changed his tune later once he wielded the strength of the Power Stone. Nebula's mood change in GOTG 1 wasn't due to being away from Thanos, but from seeing a genuine chance at defeating him through the sheer might of an Infinity Stone.
GOTG 2 is an example where the showing works because Nebula's relenting is made explicit. The shot holds on
Nebula choking Gamora, readying her knife for the finishing blow, and just as Gamora's too passed out to fight back... Nebula lets go, then begins to admit what she really feels. Her two different stated motives of "I want to kill Gamora" and "I want Gamora to love me" are reconciled by this scene showing her transitioning between them.
Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jun 10th 2019 at 10:53:27 AM
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Well his journey was already done by that point. He achieved what he wanted and payed the price for it. Nothing left to him & nothing left to say.
And it finally shows that in the end that for all his bluster he is nothing more than a unreasonable madman saying pretty words to justify mass-genocide.
Edited by slimcoder on Jun 10th 2019 at 10:53:21 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
But the pretty words clearly meant something to Thanos. Even if he's full of shit. He doesn't THINK he's full of shit. I certainly don't find it unbelievable that he would slip into just killing everyone because they didn't appreciate him enough, but I would've preferred some kind of transition into that.
Its not just that they didn't appreciate it enough.
Its the fact they actively sought to reverse it.
At that point dusting half of everything is pointless if people are gonna undo it again so killing everything and remaking it taking away people's final sense of agency is logical.
Edited by slimcoder on Jun 10th 2019 at 11:01:16 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."![]()
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I'm not saying how it's done doesn't make sense. I'm saying I thought you could've made some compelling scenes out of him coming to that conclusion. And the film as it stands just has thanos as a body to fight at the end.
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To me there's a difference between someone's conscious motive, and someone's true inner motive. Thanos, in his heart of hearts, is self centered, crazy, egotistical and wants everyone to realize how amazing he is. But he truly thinks that he's helping people. That's the justification his brain has made to wallpaper over how he really feels.
Edited by GNinja on Jun 10th 2019 at 6:08:44 PM
Kaze ni Nare!I guess we're well into spoiler territory then. I'm quite fine with Thanos being stripped of sympathetic qualities since I grew to be highly mixed on him in IW and this is back to being the Avengers' movie centering on how they handle this horrific tragedy they've experienced and have every right to be pissed at Thanos for.
Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)What IW Thanos was great & Endgame Thanos great.
He is one of the finest antagonists to ever grace cinema.
He did win and even if it was reversed he attained the ultimate victory in that he will forever be remembered. His reach extends to the entire universe and no one will forget the Mad Titan and the atrocities he committed.
He is Inevitable........ and Darkseid IS.
Edited by slimcoder on Jun 10th 2019 at 11:15:06 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."For a villain guy like me, Infinity War was like being thrown a bone. But if the bone was a giant moon made entirely of bones. I was thrown a planetoid full of bones in Infinity War and it made me so happy. XD
It's why Endgame, while I liked it and the final act is amazing, didn't completely do it for me. I guess I was spoiled.
Edited by GNinja on Jun 10th 2019 at 6:28:09 PM
Kaze ni Nare!

I legit don't see what you see in Endgame Nebula. Her development from Vol. 2 to Endgame is fantastic imo. Looking forward to seeing what Vol. 3 can do with the current Nebula and the new status quo of the Guardians.