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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#103201: Jun 3rd 2019 at 2:17:39 AM

[up] Right that is true especially in the time they lived in, Janet would have to go through the glass ceiling & such as a woman scientist.

So shit not being a sexist prick, just a general prick regardless of gender is most likely what rom part of what attracted Janet to him. tongue

Edited by slimcoder on Jun 3rd 2019 at 2:18:13 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#103202: Jun 3rd 2019 at 2:44:59 AM

Also, at the end of the day Hank means well. For someone who has no patience whatsoever for the point of view of his fellow human beings, he is very concerned with doing the responsible thing, too. In a way he is the opposite of Howard. Howard never really cared about what his inventions could do, if he had an idea, he invented it. At best he put his "bad babies" into a vault. Hank always worries about the negative consequences of his inventions - maybe even too much.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#103203: Jun 3rd 2019 at 2:59:31 AM

Which ironically made Hank a lot like Howard's son Tony.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#103204: Jun 3rd 2019 at 3:42:32 AM

Not really...yes, Tony makes sure that his weapons stay out of the hand of the public, but he also goes full clean energy. I mean, thanks to him global warming might be way less of an issue in the MCU.

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#103205: Jun 3rd 2019 at 4:55:19 AM

And Tonys had bad ideas. Iron Man suits across the entire world because he fears Thanos? Oh my that definitely wouldn't backfire snd become tools of war instead.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#103206: Jun 3rd 2019 at 5:17:34 AM

Sure he does...but his view is more on "okay, this stuff is better kept secret, but this stuff could benefit everyone". Hank never really cares about benefitting anything but his own goals.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#103207: Jun 3rd 2019 at 5:41:00 AM

> And Tonys had bad ideas. Iron Man suits across the entire world because he fears Thanos?

It was'nt just Thanos he feared ,it was every outside threat

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#103208: Jun 3rd 2019 at 6:57:54 AM

Funny thing that Hank has never even met Tony.

All his spite towards him is just past down from his interactions with his father Howard.

Tony has never even given Hank any thought or feelings.

And despite all that (Endgame spoilers incoming), Hank still showed up to Tony's funeral.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Jun 3rd 2019 at 9:58:24 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#103209: Jun 3rd 2019 at 7:10:23 AM

[up] Well, it would be too dickish even for Hank not to, considering the circumstances.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#103210: Jun 3rd 2019 at 7:16:50 AM

And Tonys had bad ideas. Iron Man suits across the entire world because he fears Thanos? Oh my that definitely wouldn't backfire snd become tools of war instead.

I mean.

It's not like the world fared any better without the suits. Tony actually brings this up in Endgame; he wanted to arm the planet to fight Thanos, they made him not do that, and then Thanos curbstomped everyone.

Say what you will about the risk of Iron Man suits becoming implements of war but it's difficult to imagine the consequences ever coming even close to "50% of the entire universe annihilated in an instant."

Let's not act like he was overreacting about the threat Thanos posed.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 3rd 2019 at 8:17:56 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#103211: Jun 3rd 2019 at 7:24:01 AM

[up] Except that the whole "suit of armour" concept might have worked if Tony had, you know, worked TOGETHER with everyone else. Plus, he kind of got what he wanted in Vision, didn't he? Except that didn't work out that well, either.

Honestly in the end this goes all back to Civil War. Without the split, they could have coordinated better and Thanos might have failed.

I wonder if Zemo is still proud of what he did….

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#103212: Jun 3rd 2019 at 7:28:01 AM

That makes me wonder if he got Snapped.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#103213: Jun 3rd 2019 at 7:34:50 AM

[up] Considering he was about to off himself after tearing apart the Avengers, he'd probably respond with a "This is good, isn't it?" (Though I wonder if they'll bring that up when he appears in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier.)

Speaking of Zemo, can you guys think of a way to integrate his signature purple mask into the MCU, or has he diverged to the point where he doesn't really NEED it?

(Actually, I'm wondering if they plan to skip the purple getup and have him go straight to being Citizen V in time for Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Jun 3rd 2019 at 10:37:28 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#103214: Jun 3rd 2019 at 7:37:36 AM

I thought Tony was envisioning a fleet of Visions. Wasn't that the purpose of the Iron Legion? I thought that was a prototype for his plans with the Ultron project, but I can't remember. It's been a long time since I saw Age of Ultron and I don't feel particularly motivated to rewatch it.

Sometimes I think he probably shouldn't have blown up the House Party suits, but then I remember that the House Party suits were made of papier-mache. There's no way Thanos's forces wouldn't have torn through them like a hot knife through butter even if Bruce was able to bring them to Wakanda.

Tony is not a very good engineer when he is having PTSD panic attacks. Plus, y'know, if you can build one suit for a billion dollars and instead build forty suits for a billion dollars, each of those suits tends to be 1/40 the quality. It's why the Iron Man is a terrible weapon for a modern military; trimming down the quality for mass-production would utterly ruin anything good about it.

The suit is so much better off as one rich dude's vigilante murder-toy than it could ever be under standardized cost/benefit design specification.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 3rd 2019 at 8:43:07 AM

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#103215: Jun 3rd 2019 at 7:48:11 AM

They were all very specialized armor

As for Hank Pym it’s easy to criticize, very very easy, but he invented tech that’s still groundbreaking in space in the relative future, took it to the government, and the government seemingly only wanted it for super spy hijinxes

And then his pupil managed to recreate it decades later and also only wanted it for super spy assassin hijinxes

Nobody wants Pym particles to revolutionize the world.

Like making cars you can carry around in a small case is pretty impressive. Everyone could have a Jetsons like portable car.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#103216: Jun 3rd 2019 at 8:34:43 AM

To be fair, there are also risks associated with it.

Everyone could have a nuclear weapon they can carry around in a portable case too. Remember that time Hank had a keychain tank? That's reason enough for the government to be like, "MAAAAAAYBE keep this shit out of the public sector."

Imagine a pipe bomb the size of your fingernail with a time-release Pym Particle trigger. Three seconds before detonation, the bomb expands to the size of a school bus.

Imagine someone stealing the Statue of Liberty by shrinking it down and putting it in a briefcase.

It could revolutionize the world, but at great risk of revolutionizing crime, war, and terror. And much like guns, once the black market gets its hands on that, there's no going back. You can never cork that genie back up in its bottle. You just have to learn to live in a Pym Particle-fueled world now.

I understand where Hank's coming from when he's like, "My research is terrible and no one should ever have it." That said, it's hypocritical for him to be like, "Except I get to use it like a toy whenever I want. Check out my Shrink-a-Lab!" Kinda makes him look more like a science-hoarder than someone who genuinely recognizes the perils of his discovery.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 3rd 2019 at 9:40:34 AM

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alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#103217: Jun 3rd 2019 at 8:47:53 AM

Imagine a pipe bomb the size of your fingernail with a time-release Pym Particle trigger. Three seconds before detonation, the bomb expands to the size of a school bus.

Imagine someone stealing the Statue of Liberty by shrinking it down and putting it in a briefcase.

Now there's some Mood Whiplash. "A terrorist detonated a bomb today, killing forty people. In other news: Carmen Sandiego managed to somehow steal the Statue of Liberty! Where in the world is she?"

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#103218: Jun 3rd 2019 at 8:49:59 AM

And then we just cut to Hank giving Scott the long stare.

  • Scott: What?
  • Hank: ...
  • Scott: What?!
  • Hank: ...
  • Scott: I wanted Captain America to think I was cool, okay?!

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OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#103219: Jun 3rd 2019 at 8:51:06 AM

Vision succeeded only in part due to an act of God (Thors Lightning) playing a part in making Vision.

By himself Tony would have definitely made another Ultron or something worse. Trying to win a war before its begun has only been shown to backfire. From Shields attempt to win againat threats before they happen being part of Hydras control, making Infinity stone powered weapons attracting the attention of those seeking the stones, Ultron, and even Thanos genius idea to "fight" the threat of overpopulation with mass murder.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jun 3rd 2019 at 8:52:19 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#103220: Jun 3rd 2019 at 8:51:39 AM

Those things are granted but it bums me out when fiction goes “no this technology is TOO DANGEROUS for the world is not yet ready”

Often it feels like an excuse to not change the status quo

Squadron Supreme really bummed me out because while some of the innovations were legitimately and demonstrably bad and exploitable some of it seemed okay but asshole knockoff Batman insisted everything be rolled back to status quo

Edited by Bocaj on Jun 3rd 2019 at 11:52:35 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#103221: Jun 3rd 2019 at 8:55:43 AM

Vision succeeded only in part due to an act of God (Thors Lightning) playing a part in making Vision.

By himself Tony would have definitely made another Ultron or something worse. Trying to win a war before its begun has only been shown to backfire. From Shields attempt to win againat threats before they happen, making Infinity stone powered weapons, Ultron, and even Thanos genius idea to "fight" the threat of overpopulation with mass murder.

Thor supplied a power source after Steve yanked the plug. I don't exactly see how this contribution was vital to Vision turning out the way he did; only to Vision turning out at all.

This just sounds like a regressive "Technology bad" argument. Progress is made by taking risks and making changes to the way things are done. Sometimes those risks and changes are bad and sometimes they're great, but nothing has ever been accomplished by sitting around with our thumbs up our arses waiting for the status quo to inevitably be ended some external influence or another.

Life is constantly changing and we are charged with changing with it.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 3rd 2019 at 9:56:17 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#103222: Jun 3rd 2019 at 8:55:45 AM

if anything clean energy should totally be spread out. The fact Ark Reactors haven't really been explored as used across the world feels odd. Fighting something like global warming would definitely work.

And I'd say weapons of war just means humans will do what they always do and use them to kill each other.

[up] Technology itself is not bad, its when technology is only ever used as weapons, which IS bad.

Look at how Thanos even uses technology solely to mutilate his daughters to make better killing machines for his cause.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jun 3rd 2019 at 8:57:43 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#103223: Jun 3rd 2019 at 8:56:18 AM

Well, HYDRA presumambly still has some Pym Particles after the events of the first Ant-Man film. Of course, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. pretty much showed their entire organization collapse and die during the events of season three, so who knows where those Particles are now.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Jun 3rd 2019 at 11:56:48 AM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#103224: Jun 3rd 2019 at 8:56:25 AM

The problem with changing the Status Quo in the Marvel Universe, even the MCU, is that Marvel comics have had a long running aspect where, aside from superheroes, they were supposed to represent "the world outside your window." And if the world changes too much from advanced technology, it no longer becomes a world that we recognize — instead, it becomes a science fictional world.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing — I would love to see what would happen if some of Stark's or Pym's tech becomes actually widespread — but it's not something that I think either the comics or the MCU would want. Heck, I doubt they will even bring up the five years of the Snap for very long — they'll address it, sure, but they will never show how it would have actually impacted the world, because then the world itself would be so radically different, it wouldn't be "the world outside your window."

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#103225: Jun 3rd 2019 at 8:59:06 AM

I kind of feel that the multiple alien invasions kind of make it not the world outside my particular window

So bring on free clean energy

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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