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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#103126: Jun 1st 2019 at 1:39:03 PM

Killmonger was compelling to me because one gets the sense that, if only things had gone a little differently, in another life he could've been a great and kind man who changed Wakanda and the world for the better.

Kaecilius was too flat for me to care about. He shows up, he stabs stuff, he monologues, next scene. While occasionally it was implied that he was a grieving man turning to extremes due to wrestling with the finality of death, the film largely treated him only as a recurring obstacle than a true character who grew into what he became.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jun 1st 2019 at 1:39:35 AM

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#103127: Jun 1st 2019 at 1:58:02 PM

We also see Killmongers past and that helps.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#103128: Jun 1st 2019 at 2:01:21 PM

Kaecillius has a interesting motivation in theory, in the one scene he's actually allowed to elaborate on it but again it is literally a single and brief scene, which seems a bit of a strange basis compared to Killmonger's multiple emotionally charged scenes (unlike Vanko, mind you, who has like two). Each to his own I guess.

I do think Kaecillius had some fairly neat deleted scenes, though. One of them, in which he has a brief chat with a Priest about truth in religion, is fairly neat.

"After. Life. Is a contradiction."

Edited by Gaon on Jun 1st 2019 at 2:02:20 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#103129: Jun 1st 2019 at 2:10:05 PM

[up] It comes down to buying it I guess. I couldn't get invested in Killmonger's acting for whatever reason. So he really just came off as a kid out for revenge.

I did say it's frustrating. One thing to know about me. I don't want to be RIGHT in not liking something. If someone were to say "I agree, Killmonger was terrible" I don't really gain anything from that. I would much rather be wrong and be convinced to like a thing. But that's the tihng with Killmonger. I think I "get him" his acting and his writing just didn't click.

Kaze ni Nare!
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#103130: Jun 1st 2019 at 2:11:18 PM

I actually read one of the Doctor Strange tie-in comics that actually went in-depth into Kaecillius's origins. How he once had a son and a wife who died months apart from each other, how he joined the sorcerers of Karma-Taj in order to find peace and try to bring his family back, only to learn that bringing the dead back to life via magic was a lost cause.

It really explained his motivations and why he turned to Dormammu to grant eternal life. It's probably the one MCU tie-in comic that I'd recommend fans read, if only because this is all stuff that should've been in the movie itself. It's a bit frustrating, since the most interesting things about Kaecillius aren't actually in the final product. It's a pity that it's relegated to supplementary material.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Jun 1st 2019 at 5:12:20 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#103131: Jun 1st 2019 at 2:17:26 PM

The conversation that Kaecilius has with the priest in the deleted scene regarding the Bible is doubly amusing to me, because Doctor Strange's director went to the same Christian university as me and every student graduates from it with at least a Bible minor. [lol]

There's seemingly a theme in Doctor Strange about the acceptance of death and loss, demonstrated most strongly with the Ancient One's farewell and with Strange making peace with his disability, but Kaecilius needed to be tied into it stronger. Make his backstory about mourning his family more prominent, don't leave him as an abstract "I want to turn everyone on Earth into undead slaves because reasons."

Also maybe watch out for that loose end of "magic can't revive the dead- oh wait, it can, Wong's fine now." tongue

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jun 1st 2019 at 2:21:19 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#103132: Jun 1st 2019 at 2:27:25 PM

Winter Soldier is my fav of the marvel movies. Cap being my fav Avenger is part of it (I always loved the elevator scene partially because I always felt like his pre-ass kicking one liner was delivered with complete sincerity. He was genuinely asking if anyone wanted to get off the elevator)

Oh, I completely believe that. Considering how nervous some of those dudes were (and how many of them they put in that elevator to take on one person) I fully suspect many of them wanted to take him up on it.

One Strip! One Strip!
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#103133: Jun 1st 2019 at 2:28:45 PM

> Bible minor.

I'm picturing a tiny bible being presented at graduation,please tell me thats it is

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#103134: Jun 1st 2019 at 2:31:14 PM

Well, you get a plate and a pen, so maybe if you write very small...

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#103135: Jun 1st 2019 at 3:49:54 PM

I almost missed that scene about Kaecilius having a dead family. And I didn't know about the deleted scene materials. Wow, they really turned a character who could've been interesting into one of the flattest and most banal villains in the whole franchise. Even Vanko had more of a presence.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#103136: Jun 1st 2019 at 3:57:58 PM

@Tuckerscreator: What a bizarre coincidence. Maybe that was his impetus for writing in the line of Kaecillius quoting scripture. He had to shove that knowledge somewhere!

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#103137: Jun 1st 2019 at 4:13:26 PM

So, if Kaecilius had ever had a chat with Black Panther, and been told, "No, the afterlife totally exists, dude; I've been there, chatted with my dead ancestors", the whole plot of Doctor Strange could have been avoided?

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#103138: Jun 1st 2019 at 4:20:34 PM

He'd ask for proof, by which point we're in the same boat as before as T'challa would never give him the herb (nor should he).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#103139: Jun 1st 2019 at 5:48:25 PM

To be fair, that panther afterlife could just be a very vivid hallucination rather than actually communing with the dead.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#103140: Jun 1st 2019 at 7:29:22 PM

[up] I’m pretty sure that both Heaven and Hell are actual physical places in 616 at least. (Also Jack Kirby may or may not be God.)

Edited by megaeliz on Jun 1st 2019 at 10:34:09 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#103141: Jun 1st 2019 at 7:54:15 PM

How many times has the Uni-Beam been used total?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#103143: Jun 1st 2019 at 8:48:59 PM

At least once to blast off Bucky's arm, likely more. He does get the Proton Cannon in toys apparently.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#103144: Jun 1st 2019 at 8:51:55 PM

It probably shows up in here a couple times.

My various fanfics.
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#103146: Jun 1st 2019 at 8:58:41 PM

Ohh, shit, we were just talking about Keanu Reeves in the MCU.

Anyway, this is fitting. He is one of those people who never ages, and therefore is eternal.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#103147: Jun 1st 2019 at 9:15:25 PM

Him being in Eternals has been rumored for a while.

Specifically as the villain, Druig.

Edited by LordVatek on Jun 1st 2019 at 12:15:58 PM

This song needs more love.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#103148: Jun 1st 2019 at 10:31:26 PM

Damn. I don't want Keanu as the villain. Yes, he would be great, but I want to see him as a hero, dammit. I want Keanu to have a whole MCU franchise.

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#103149: Jun 1st 2019 at 10:31:54 PM

Yes!

I always thought Reeves would make a great villain.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#103150: Jun 1st 2019 at 10:38:37 PM

[up]When he does it, he is. That was the main draw of Man of Tai Chi. Seeing Keanu use his detached acting to portray a sociopath.


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