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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#102476: May 14th 2019 at 8:09:47 AM

I’m pretty sure the Pym Particles are going to be on lockdown for a reason since Hank (and probably Dawn)’s original motivation stemmed from their loathing of the idea of them being abused.

As for time travel shenanigans, everyone’s mentioning Kang the Conqueror, whose whole deal is time travel, as a future Avengers villain.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#102477: May 14th 2019 at 8:09:59 AM

EDIT: Wrong thread.

Edited by chasemaddigan on May 14th 2019 at 11:10:21 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#102478: May 14th 2019 at 8:12:38 AM

Really hoping Kang doesn't show up any time soon. I've mentioned before how much I hate Time Travel as a major plot element. That hasn't changed.

And no, I haven't watched Endgame yet. If that does involve time travel, I don't want to know yet.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102479: May 14th 2019 at 8:13:38 AM

[up][up][up] Well, now that Hank's un-Snapped, he can presumably maintain that control. Endgame's plot is enabled, at least in part, by the fact that he isn't around to say no to Tony going ham with his tech.

[up] At this point I'd say that, while we should still tag explicit spoilers, talking around them is fine, and it's kind of on you to avoid conversations that are likely to contain talk about the film. We're way past the two-week convention.

Edited by Fighteer on May 14th 2019 at 11:14:59 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#102480: May 14th 2019 at 8:21:46 AM

Because people do not embark on lifelong vendettas over something so petty as Hitler Ate Sugar.

"My mugger wore a mask. Spider-Man wears a mask. I WILL DEDICATE THE NEXT THIRTY YEARS OF MY LIFE TO DESTROYING SPIDER-MAN!!! Through print and sometimes attempted murder! And also ignore all other masked superheroes! ONLY SPIDER-MAN!!!"

In fairness, he was held at gunpoint and his girlfriend was shot. That’s a lot more severe than “I got mugged”. Human history is filled with vendettas that began with less sympathetic motivations.

Admittedly, the 90s cartoon of having it be a hitman instead of a mugger packed a stronger punch.

Problem is, his actual character history is pretty f*cking hard to whitewash.

This I can agree with. Still it is the type of motivation that would make sense for a person who despises masked men.

So, do we want the MCU go "temperamental but the jerkass has a point", "Kind of an a-hole wit some redeeming qualities", "absolute unreasonable capitalist jerk" or "why the hell isn't the guy in prison yet"?

I'd go with "kind of an a-hole with some redeeming qualities.

Edited by windleopard on May 14th 2019 at 8:33:49 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102481: May 14th 2019 at 8:27:46 AM

I've always pictured JJJ as a Hidden Heart of Gold character: someone with a reputation to maintain as a jerkass, but who has secret redeeming qualities. Having him be an unrepentant asshole forever and ever just makes him boring. I guess it goes along with my general dislike of portraying Peter as a permanent hard-luck hero who keeps getting knocked down despite his best efforts.

The thing to remember is that Spidey is an underdog; he is not a punching bag for the universe to work out its frustrations on. We want to see him gritting his teeth, buckling down, and winning against all odds through sheer strength of character; we do not want to see him continually failing to accomplish anything that isn't immediately stolen away by the cruel hand of fate.

The two best parts of Homecoming are when Peter has to escape the collapsed building and when he goes into the fire to save Toomes. These are the points when he demonstrates unshakable determination and unshakable moral character in situations where nobody would ever fault him for failing, nor even know if he had failed.

Edited by Fighteer on May 14th 2019 at 11:34:23 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#102482: May 14th 2019 at 8:41:01 AM

Yeah, we don't need Spidey to be the punching bag. That's Daredevil's thing.

Disgusted, but not surprised
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#102483: May 14th 2019 at 8:52:17 AM

Daredevil gets knocked down. But he gets back up again. You're never gonna keep him down.

The thing to remember is that Spidey is an underdog; he is not a punching bag for the universe to work out its frustrations on. We want to see him gritting his teeth, buckling down, and winning against all odds through sheer strength of character; we do not want to see him continually failing to accomplish anything that isn't immediately stolen away by the cruel hand of fate.

Don't tell certain fans this, they think Peter continuously failing and being miserable is when the character works best. I remember reading this post that interpreted Into the Spider Verse Peter as suicidal and treated this as a good thing.

Edited by windleopard on May 14th 2019 at 8:55:37 AM

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#102484: May 14th 2019 at 9:10:44 AM

[up]. I can see how someone how someone might get the idea of Peter B. being somewhat suicidal (or at least a bit too eager to sacrifice himself), but the whole good thing is where they loose me.

Edited by megaeliz on May 14th 2019 at 12:12:17 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102485: May 14th 2019 at 9:33:21 AM

The best parts of the Tobey Maguire Spider-Man films are when the community comes together to support him when he's at his lowest. This is also part of the essence of the character: he fights for the people and the people fight for him when it's needed the most, no matter what BS JJJ tries to sell them.

Spidey is a hero for the little guys, and when he gets too above that, when he loses himself in the fame and celebrity, is when he gets smacked down. I'm not too excited about Peter Parker becoming the next Iron Man, because he has to earn that role first, and he's still a freaking teenager. He'd be crushed by the burden and lose what makes him relatable.

Now, if Far from Home plays with the idea, as it looks like from the trailer, I'll be happy, because that's totally in keeping with the theme established by the MCU. I just don't want him to go straight there in one film after Endgame. There is enormous room to grow this new Spider-Man, and Marvel/Sony should take their time.

[down] This is what I'm hoping for as well. Cynically, it also lets Sony keep the Spider-Man franchise thematically distinct from the MCU until he's needed for ensemble films.

Edited by Fighteer on May 14th 2019 at 12:39:53 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#102486: May 14th 2019 at 9:37:59 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if Far From Home ends with Peter deciding he can not and should not fill Tony's shoes and decided to make his own way in life.

SapphireBlue Since: Jan, 2001
#102487: May 14th 2019 at 9:40:14 AM

[up] I'm expecting something like that. Some kind of conclusion about how that's not who he is, or who he wants to be, and that that's OK.

MrSeyker Since: Apr, 2011
#102488: May 14th 2019 at 9:56:23 AM

I don't expect quantum time travel to come up any time soon because they already established its caveat in Endgame.

No matter how much you muck with the time line, you can't change what already happened in your past.

It's useless as a plot device to resolve a conflict without the involvement of the Infinity Stones.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#102489: May 14th 2019 at 10:00:36 AM

You can steal people and things from time but the expenditure of Pym particles and whatever energy requirements for the gate make that a costly thing

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#102490: May 14th 2019 at 10:49:57 AM

Like sending some superheroes back in time to steal Blackbeard's magic jewels.

Edited by RavenWilder on May 14th 2019 at 10:50:07 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#102491: May 14th 2019 at 11:10:43 AM

There's a Hidden Depths scene with Jameson that comes up in adaptations from time to time, that I've often felt is a good moment for him. I actually don't know if it's from the comics or not, but it's an iconic moment across the multitude of Spider-Man media, showing up in multiple places.

Basically: a villain pieces together that Peter Parker is the key to finding Spider-Man on account of being Spider-Man's photographer. He storms into the Daily Bugle and threatens Jameson, demanding he give up Parker. Parker happens to be working at a desk or cubicle or otherwise present in the office at the time.

Jameson goes Full Jameson, blustering about how he barely even knows the f*cking kid and mouthing off at the supervillain. At the same time, subtly gesturing with his hand for Peter to slip out the door. He's buying time, distracting the villain so Peter can get away.

That, I think, is the best type of Jameson. Jameson is great when a) his antagonism towards Spider-Man is limited to the press and not f*cking commissioning murderers to kill him, and b) he's actually pretty decent in his own belligerent way to people who are not Spider-Man.

The best Jameson is one that never goes Full Supervillain and occasionally pets some dogs, but is still an angry, boisterous asshole with an axe to grind against Spider-Man.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 14th 2019 at 12:12:29 PM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#102492: May 14th 2019 at 11:15:02 AM

I think that was Spectacular Spider Man and the Rhino

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#102493: May 14th 2019 at 11:17:16 AM

That was also in the first Spider-Man movie with the Green Goblin.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102494: May 14th 2019 at 12:10:27 PM

Yep, it's a great scene because it shows that Jameson is not totally evil, just self-serving.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#102495: May 14th 2019 at 3:24:40 PM

I think Scorpion could work in a "Jameson funds a superhero to be what he thinks Spider-Man is incapable of being" rather than "Jameson funds a hitman," and then it turns out Scorpion is dangerously unstable and the whole thing spirals out of control.

I'm not sure it'd work with MCU Mac Gargan, though, given that he's an already convicted felon who I think killed a few people in his backstory. There's no way Jameson wouldn't know he's bad news.

Dirtyblue929 Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#102496: May 14th 2019 at 3:45:38 PM

[up] Maybe have a different Scorpion? JJ funds some seemingly upstanding guy who loses it and gets arrested, but the gear is lost or stolen and winds up in Mac's hands in The Stinger?

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#102497: May 14th 2019 at 3:47:09 PM

That or maybe Jameson intends for it to be used on an upstanding individual, but Scorpion steals it or disguises himself or positions himself as the recipient himself one way or another.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#102498: May 14th 2019 at 3:49:00 PM

I don’t personally think a newspaper publisher should have the resources to fund a super suit

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#102499: May 14th 2019 at 3:51:35 PM

Jameson becomes the scorpion!

genius I know

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#102500: May 14th 2019 at 3:52:44 PM

If I were writing JJJ, I'd probably have him staunchly distrust superheroes in general, because a Spiderman-shaped blindspot doesn't make a lot of sense. You could give him a sympathetic motive for this.

With honesty and ethics it's a bit of a mixed bag. I'd actually say he's a textbook example of how bad journalism can ruin someone's life, and it'd be a very timely message in today's culture. However, him having a degree of honesty and integrity is a bit more interesting, so it's a tough call. I might make it so he is click-baity but not quite dishonest (more like 'conflict of interest has warped his views').

And of course, even if he is a bad journalist you can make it so he's otherwise nice.

Leviticus 19:34

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