Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules
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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
I'd be more lenient, if the thing the show was building up to wasn't a movie where half the universe died.
Like, the main characters are all talking about how losing Coulson was and how a year later, they're still not over it. I guess no else lost anyone else to the giant purple man and his NES Power Glove turning 3.5 billion people to dust at the same time. Even when Civil War came out, the show at least acknowledged the Sokovia Accords and tried to integrate that into the story. And I think exploring how SHIELD would operate in post-Snap world would be interesting idea. It wouldn't contradict what happened in the movies, because now they're four years behind in-continuity. One critique audiences had about Endgame was that it kind of glossed over the effects of human society losing that many people in an instant. Exploring that world probably would've gotten some people to pick-up the show again.
Maybe the showrunners were just told "Oh, we're going to use Time Travel to reverse the Snap" and they just assumed it would be retroactively erased, instead of only resurrecting those who died. Considering the internal politics between the two divisions, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case.
Shit, I'm really sorry. Didn't know when that expired. Spoilered tagged the whole damn thing.
Edited by chasemaddigan on May 13th 2019 at 1:25:52 PM
Well, I think they should have just told the show runners "guys, we plan something big, so maybe slow down with your timeline for once" (which they could have easily done). They didn't, but I am still hopeful that the show runners will retcon the timeline a little bit and have the snap happening in the show eventually, hence putting it back on track.
Ao S is a great show with or without the tie-ins, but I prefer it as clear part of the MCU. I don't care about Runaways and Cloak and Dagger. The first show didn't hold my attention anyway, and the latter show is great, but I can just handwave them with "eh, they are set in another timeline where no snap happened". Ao S is different, though. It is largely what is keeping my interest in the MCU between movies.
Edited by Swanpride on May 13th 2019 at 10:19:39 AM
Has any version of JJJ just been an arachnophobe, plain and simple, and so has an irrational distaste for spider-themed superheroes?
At any rate, my personal favorite interpretation for him is that depicting Spider-Man as a menace started as just a tactic to drum up headlines. But psychological studies have shown that, if you spend enough time asserting that something is true, you'll tend to start believing it is true, regardless of what the original intent behind your assertions was. Basically, hating Spider-Man starts off as an act, but he devotes so much time to it for so long, he starts Becoming the Mask.
Migrated to Chloe Jessica!
idea: incarnation of Mac Gargan who takes the codename Scorpion specifically to intimidate an arachnophobic JJJ after the two have a falling out
Because people do not embark on lifelong vendettas over something so petty as Hitler Ate Sugar.
"My mugger wore a mask. Spider-Man wears a mask. I WILL DEDICATE THE NEXT THIRTY YEARS OF MY LIFE TO DESTROYING SPIDER-MAN!!! Through print and sometimes attempted murder! And also ignore all other masked superheroes! ONLY SPIDER-MAN!!!"
That, right there, is a motivation created by a writer desperately reaching for any excuse to justify a behavior after-the-fact. Something that makes him kinda-sorta sympathetic, because for some reason writers want to do that.
Problem is, his actual character history is pretty f*cking hard to whitewash. He's been at this for decades. He's commissioned actual super-villains. He's sent militarized riot cops after Spider-Man. He has made constant attempts to destroy not only Spider-Man's public image but Spidey's financial wellbeing and literal mortal life. His obsession is beyond any reasonable sympathetic motivation.
"I got mugged once" doesn't cut it. And designating a murdered girlfriend to it, that great recourse of hack-job writers, is just lazy.
Edited by TobiasDrake on May 14th 2019 at 8:11:43 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.J Jonah Jameson hates Spider-Man because it makes life difficult for Peter
Forever liveblogging the AvengersWell...sounds like a typical Comic book problem.
So, do we want the MCU go "temperamental but the jerkass has a point", "Kind of an a-hole wit some redeeming qualities", "absolute unreasonable capitalist jerk" or "why the hell isn't the guy in prison yet"?
I am leaning towards "unlikable capitalist with some redeeming qualities which still don't really make up for the damage he tends to do". Because it would be nice if they point out for once that "redeeming qualities" aren't really useful for people who suffer because of sensationalism….
Edited by Swanpride on May 14th 2019 at 7:16:44 AM
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That's the Doylist reason, yes. And it's kinda why writers are stretching to explain Jameson now. He's been used as a plot device for years - sometimes terribly, giving us those "actually attempted to murder Spider-Man" moments that f*ck up those writers' ability to make him sympathetic.
Personally, I've always been fond of the old-fashioned feud idea. That Jameson started shitting on Spidey to sell papers, but then Spidey started embarrassing and humiliating him - both indirectly when his stories were disproven and directly because Spidey's a lovable troll who likes to shit on Jameson's desk when he gets the opportunity.
So now it's personal for Jameson. Jameson hates Spidey for retaliating against Jameson for slandering Spidey.
That always made enough sense to me. It didn't need "A mugger broke my Sexy Lamp".
Edited by TobiasDrake on May 14th 2019 at 8:18:50 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.They both live in NYC. Spidey operates in Queens, DareDevil in Hell's Kitchen. These are two neighborhoods of NYC.
Edited by TobiasDrake on May 14th 2019 at 8:21:19 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.New York City is basically Superhuman Central for the comic Marvel Universe. Half of everything in the f*cking universe happens in NYC. It's gotten so bad that the city's been declared a perpetual disaster zone. New Yorkers can buy insurance against super-battles destroying their livelihoods, on account of it happening every other Tuesday.
There are certain jokes where every writer thinks they were the first person ever to come up with it. "I left New York to get away from this!" is one of those. Any time a super-fight takes place in another part of the United States, some bystander will inevitably say that.
Edited by TobiasDrake on May 14th 2019 at 8:22:00 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Recently I found out in the PS 4 game that JJJ was voiced by Darin De Paul who also voiced the Terminals, which just plants a whole bunch of amusing thoughts/images in my head if you're familiar with that game. Let's just say whatever grief he gives Peter is a bloody stroll through a meadow compared to what happens in N:A.
Edited by AyyItsMidnight on May 14th 2019 at 7:26:28 AM
Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)Also, to answer the question, Jameson generally likes DareDevil. And the Avengers. He'll back any superhero, masked or unmasked, who isn't Spider-Man. Especially if they fought Spider-Man.
But if they vouch for Spider-Man, like the Avengers did when they let Spidey join, then he'll turn his editorial wrath on them too.
For J. Jonah Jameson, the sun rises and sets with Spider-Man.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Hey, with Pym tech, it could easily happen. Ant-Man/Spider-Man crossover, anyone? Please? I'd pay money!
As an aside, this makes me wonder how Phase 4+ MCU will deal with the fact that quantum time travel is now officially a thing. Will they sit on it? Will they come up with excuses not to use it? Will the breach between Stark and Pym continue and thus preserve the separation between Ant-Man and the rest of the MCU, so that everyone isn't shrinking and growing all over the place?
Edited by Fighteer on May 14th 2019 at 11:05:15 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

It’s like when tie in comics don’t actually make sense or even downright contradict the main storyline in the event comic, since they were handled by different creative teams.
Edited by megaeliz on May 13th 2019 at 12:06:28 PM