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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#102176: May 8th 2019 at 7:36:58 PM

While I still do enjoy a good action sequence I've come to prefer the character moments more over time. I think Endgame with its relatively smaller cast delivered more on that compared to Infinity War, which repeated plot beats a little too much for my liking.

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#102177: May 8th 2019 at 7:44:01 PM

[up] I think my problem is that I just... don't care that much about the characters in the MCU.

Okay, I do. But not enough to want a movie of primarily character moments. They just don't resonate with me that much. I don't know what it is, because in other stories I can really like character stuff. In The Dresden Files I think Butcher is far better at writing slice of life interactions than action half the time. But for the MCU I just... don't find them THAT interesting.

That and I felt the middle of Endgame kinda turns into a circle-jerky comedy of errors plot.

Edited by GNinja on May 8th 2019 at 2:44:50 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102178: May 8th 2019 at 7:51:24 PM

It's almost impossible to talk about Endgame without Infinity War, and vice versa. They are two halves of a whole. The Infinity War + Endgame package relies on, even demands, that the audience be emotionally invested in 11 years and 21 films worth of characters. The more you are into the MCU, the more you get out of them.

Narratively, however, they are very different movies. Infinity War is about a Villain Protagonist on a quest to fulfill his lifelong goal, and the heroes who are trying to overcome their flaws and divisions to stop him. Endgame is about a world and its heroes struggling to deal with the crushing aftermath of their defeat and each finding redemption and closure for their personal arcs.

Endgame is also a, well, ending. It brings a conclusion to all of the films that came before it, leaving the saga complete. Sure, there are new stories to be told, but the stories that have been told up until now are pretty much all done.

Because of all this, I can't fairly rank the films in any sort of absolute sense. What I can say is that, when I left Infinity War, shocked and horrified, I thought it was one of the best superhero films I'd ever seen. When I left Endgame, tearful and emotionally drained, I though it was one of the best films I'd ever seen of any kind. Take that for what you will.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#102179: May 8th 2019 at 7:54:19 PM

Wait forget it.

Edited by slimcoder on May 8th 2019 at 8:02:44 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#102180: May 8th 2019 at 7:55:05 PM

[up] Let's try not to turn this on individual posters, please. People have different opinions about different characters and that's okay.

Spider-Verse being stand alone honestly makes what they were able to do in the span of one movie, arguably more impressive.

Over the course of a single film, they had to sell Audiences on a new, non-Peter Parker Spiderman and tell a full origin story for Miles, while also being a "Spiderverse" film and juggling 5 new Spider-People, and a big villain team up on top of that.

Under a lesser creative team, this would have fallen apart. But somehow, they managed to make this crazy premise work, and actually make it tighter, funnier, fresher, and more genuine movie then anything out of the MCU for a long time.

Edited by megaeliz on May 8th 2019 at 10:57:51 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#102181: May 8th 2019 at 7:57:10 PM

I wouldn’t say it did it perfectly.

3 of the 5 Spiders were left a bit to a way-side & I wouldn’t call a bunch of Elite Mooks a villain team-up.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#102182: May 8th 2019 at 8:12:08 PM

I prefer Endgame over Infinity War. Its narrative thematic core is a lot more cohesive among varied scenes, while Infinity War tended to repeat itself while divided between action scenes that felt obligatory but rarely necessary. Most of the things I despised about Endgame were inherited from Infinity War, from the reversal of Thor's character arc in Ragnarok to the Manpain Stone to its weird apologism for abusive fathers. But it dropped all pretense of Thanos as sympathetic, so that's a bonus I guess.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on May 8th 2019 at 8:14:17 AM

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#102183: May 8th 2019 at 8:18:33 PM

I kinda find the idea that it "apologizes for abusive fathers" to be a weird.

Like... what? Thanos was pretty clearly the bad guy throughout the film even if he had his reasons in his head.

That's always how the Soul Stone scene read to me. In his mind he loved Gommorah. What should the scene have done? Do people think Thanos should've been written to NOT think he cared about Gommorah? Well that's boring. Do people think the stone should've had some kind of measuring stick for what objective love is?

Kaze ni Nare!
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#102184: May 8th 2019 at 8:18:59 PM

[up][up][up] l wouldn't say I disagree with that, but I do think that it still works.

While the three other spiders are great, and I would love to see more of any of them, they are definitely a bit more one note than the main three, but still have their own little arcs and character moments.

And I do think the way the introductions of the Spider-People are spaced out works on a narrative level. Each introduction matches up with major increase in the threat level, finally culminating with Miles finally taking up the mantle for himself in the climax.

There are a few things that don't quite add up, like how Gwen managed to get into Miles' school, or why Kingpin was hosting a gala on the night where he was planning to run the collider (apparently a holdover from an earlier draft that had Fisk running for mayor), but they are almost nitpicks.

I mean, it's not perfect, but honestly, it's hard to imagine a a way it could have been better.

Like if you get a chance, watch the Alt Universe Cut. It's fun, but honestly, it doesn't work nearly as well as the final film.

Edited by megaeliz on May 8th 2019 at 11:36:29 AM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#102185: May 8th 2019 at 8:33:31 PM

On an unrelated note to Endgame, I finally wrapped up Punisher Season 2.

Is Jessica Jones Season 3 still coming out like a dead body's last shit, or did it get cancelled when its series did? If the latter, then goodnight, sweet Netflix-verse. Taken too soon...

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#102186: May 8th 2019 at 8:33:31 PM

The fact that they're so highly dependent on previous films is one of the reasons I don't feel like ranking Infinity War or Endgame the way I do with other films. Although, I think a big reason for why I view Endgame so highly is that for all its throwbacks and Continuity Lock-Out it's got enough internal structure to stand better as a solo film than Infinity War does. Or even Civil War for that matter.

I thought Endgame's portrayal of Thanos and what it did with Nebula actually undid the abusive father apologia somewhat. It gave me the impression that his empathy for his daughters was ultimately just a cynical bargaining chip to ensure their loyalty to him.

Edited by AlleyOop on May 8th 2019 at 11:36:18 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#102187: May 8th 2019 at 8:43:44 PM

Well the idea that abusive fathers can still love their children was a ship sailed with Guardians 2 and Yondu

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#102188: May 8th 2019 at 8:46:41 PM

And Yondu was better than Peters biological abusive father on top of it.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#102189: May 8th 2019 at 8:47:21 PM

And Yondu was a crappy adopted dad so that says something.

Actually Yondu was kinda abusive.

Edited by slimcoder on May 8th 2019 at 8:47:54 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#102190: May 8th 2019 at 8:47:53 PM

Peter didn't have much luck in the dad department.

When the adopted dad is the kidnapper who raises you to be a pirate and threatens to eat you all the time and the bio dad is an Omnicidal Maniac who actually is planning to eat you...

Edited by M84 on May 8th 2019 at 11:49:09 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#102191: May 8th 2019 at 8:50:09 PM

[up][up] Thats what I’m getting at. I can believe that Yondu actually loved Peter even as his own fucked up childhood left him unable to raise him in a healthy manner

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#102192: May 8th 2019 at 8:55:08 PM

[up]x2 And the adoptive dad actually takes your side and lets you get away with things he wont let others get away, but never in front of you and proceeds to be an ass when in your vicinity.

And on top of it raises you in an environment that fuels toxic masculinity. Which has left Peter a manchild, but still a better person than his real dad will ever be.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#102193: May 8th 2019 at 8:57:03 PM

Yondu & Thanos are amusing counterparts to each other.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#102194: May 8th 2019 at 8:57:46 PM

Weirdly, it occurs that Ego was kind of echoing Thanos in a way. He also felt love for someone but without hesitation killed them so he could fulfill his Purpose

There is a difference in that Thanos has a direct offer of rare loot drop if he kills his loved one and Ego did it because he decided that his feelings would have gotten in the way. But it’s similar enough

[up] The Guardians are Team Abusive Dad and Also Drax Who Thinks His Dad Was Great

Edited by Bocaj on May 8th 2019 at 11:58:55 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#102195: May 8th 2019 at 8:59:32 PM

Basically Ego mattered more than the person they cared about.

Thats what it is. Their Ego.

[up] Drax whose dad was so great he would intimately tell his progeny of how he conceived them every chance given. In the smallest detail!

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 8th 2019 at 9:00:29 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#102196: May 8th 2019 at 9:01:03 PM

Thanos & Ego do care, they just care more about themselves.

Yondu does care about himself, he just cares more about Quill.

[up] What it was a cultural thing, don't judge him. tongue

Edited by slimcoder on May 8th 2019 at 9:01:36 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#102197: May 8th 2019 at 9:01:39 PM

Thus its all about Ego.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#102198: May 8th 2019 at 9:03:22 PM

That’s the best kind of pun

Also it occurs to me that Thanos is like a jerky space Batman

He adopts orphans and teaches them to be badass which is good or at least neutral

But he sometimes makes them orphans in the first place and teaches them by making them beat the shit out of each other and then maims them if they lose which most people would agree is bad and that even Batman at his worst wouldn’t do

Edited by Bocaj on May 8th 2019 at 12:05:48 PM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#102199: May 8th 2019 at 9:07:21 PM

Apparently there's a rumor that Guardians 3 will include the origins of Rocket, supposedly created by The High Evolutionary.

That makes way too much sense.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#102200: May 8th 2019 at 9:07:21 PM

[up][up]Batman also doesn't kill people most of the time. Thanos kills people all the time.

[up]High Evolutionary's also kind of an asshole father creator. He's also got some weird ideas of what constitutes evolution. In the comics he even went so far as to turn a robot girl into a human. Without her consent, leaving her feeling disgusted and violated.

Edited by M84 on May 9th 2019 at 12:08:45 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised

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