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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#102026: May 7th 2019 at 11:49:42 AM

[up]Yeah, I am not found of these plot points either. Granted, it might be because having little to no social life in High School myself, I could never relate.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#102027: May 7th 2019 at 12:04:01 PM

To put that into context, in the 616 comics, Spider-Man publicly unmasked at the start of Civil War. Iron Man held a press conference where Peter announced his identity as Peter Parker, as a show of support for the Registration Act.

Flash was still oblivious. He was a gym coach at the school where Peter taught science at the time, and he kept insisting that Peter was doing this to cover for the real Spider-Man. Take the fall, let Spidey keep operating in secret.

Peter had to kick Flash's ass in a basketball game using his spider-powers to finally convince him it was real.

To be fair, Flash had brain damage at the time. Editorially mandated status quo brain damage, but still. It was a plot point.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 7th 2019 at 12:04:40 PM

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#102028: May 7th 2019 at 12:07:14 PM

Re: sharing your secret identity with friends and family:

That's not necessarily a good idea. Someone may be a good friend, or a family member you love dearly, but that doesn't mean they can't still be a blabbermouth who will, perhaps unintentionally, spill your secret to the world. The more people who know a secret, the odds of it staying secret decrease exponentially.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#102029: May 7th 2019 at 12:10:48 PM

The key is to specifically tell the people who you are close to that you know would have your back, and not assume all your friends are morons who can't keep important things to themselves just because one of them could. That justification has always been a little weak.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#102030: May 7th 2019 at 12:18:42 PM

Also, to NOT put people in danger. If someone is such a big blabbermouth and not trustworthy, why would you be close to said person anyway?

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#102031: May 7th 2019 at 12:28:45 PM

...

So, seeing the X-Men will be rebooted into the MCU, there is a concept I've been entertaining and would like to see:

Tutsi Magneto.

Mostly because a Holocaust survivor in 2023 and beyond may not be an optimal choice. But also Wakandan dynamics, and person of color representation (although having a mostly racist antagonist being played by a Po C could be controversial).

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#102032: May 7th 2019 at 12:29:07 PM

I'd like a break from Magneto, tbh.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#102033: May 7th 2019 at 12:29:58 PM

Just make him a Posthumous Character.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#102034: May 7th 2019 at 12:31:54 PM

I don't want him to be dead, it'd just rather if we didn't get another X-Men series that had the same "we only have two or three plots, and we're going to cycle them over and over again" problem that the last one had.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#102035: May 7th 2019 at 12:31:58 PM

If they do use Magneto maybe make him just a good guy in the same vein as Wolverine, morality wise

If Magneto is supposed to be the Malcom X to Xavier’s Martin Luther King as is oft described maybe don’t make the Malcom X an actual super villain

That’s all kinds of not right

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102037: May 7th 2019 at 12:41:32 PM

I am holding out for two possibilities for introducing the X-Men into the MCU:

  • Given the "multiverse" thing that FFH is setting up, have them exist in an alternate universe that occasionally crosses over with the Avengers' universe. This lets them maintain a separate continuity, including in their past, without raising the question of why nobody in the MCU ever noticed them before.
  • The "energy wave" released by the Snap activates the dormant mutant gene in humans. This avoids AU shenanigans, but carries with it the problem that the premise of the X-Men is that some mutants have always existed in secret, which is how we get Professor X and Magneto running schools/armies of mutants, respectively. So they were just hiding for the past ~50 years?

Even more basically, the key problem with both the X-Men and the Fantastic Four is that, like Spider-Man, they've been booted and then rebooted at least twice already outside the MCU. To bring them in, again like Spider-Man, Marvel will need to do something different.

Edited by Fighteer on May 7th 2019 at 3:45:13 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#102038: May 7th 2019 at 12:48:09 PM

So they were just hiding for the past ~50 years?

Why not? It worked for HYDRA, "real" HYDRA, the Inhumans, Kamar Taj, the Hand, probably the Eternals...

I don't think there needs to be any especially complicated reason behind mutants existing. The entire point of the concept is that it's explainable in a single sentence: people are getting born with superpowers.

There's even no need for the X-Men to have retroactively been a thing either, really. Just make them a thing now, in response to the changing times.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 7th 2019 at 12:49:54 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#102039: May 7th 2019 at 12:53:22 PM

I think the X-men are better served in the multiverse scenario. This way they can go all in on the notion of a reality in which powered people are both common and feared.

I mean can you imagine the people from the main timeline doing anything BUT ensuring that earth has as many powered people as possible for protection?

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#102040: May 7th 2019 at 12:54:14 PM

Yes, because last time there was a team of powerful people poised to protect everyone the governments of the world hunted them down and threw half of them in jail.

We've already established that the people desire to control powered people moreso than adopt them, and that there's resistance to even the famed, well liked ones. The tv shows go even farther with this, with public perception of powered people shifting at the drop of a hat except for those closest to those people and outright racism thrown at groups of them (using the Inhumans as stand ins in Agents of SHIELD, but we also see it in Jessica Jones and other cases as well).

Whenever this comes up, it bears pointing out that the multiverse idea is an needlessly complicated solution to something that's only a very simple problem in the first place, and that Bob Iger has already noted that they don't plan on doing it anyway.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 7th 2019 at 12:59:11 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#102041: May 7th 2019 at 12:58:37 PM

As far as the X-Men goes, I really don't care. I'd honestly be fine with just keeping the existing FoX-Men and having it be an official alternate universe within the same multiverse as the MCU, and then doing crossover events between those two universes. Simple, easy, no need to recast all of the actors, and a ton of movies of prior worldbuilding already available.

The Fantastic 4, on the other hand, need and deserve a good film adaptation, and I want to see them get proper justice in the MCU already, it's been long enough! You say that the MCU would have to do something different with them, I say GOOD! Make the movie actually good, that's all it'd need to stand apart from its peers.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#102042: May 7th 2019 at 1:04:26 PM

[up][up] Yeah, and that ended HOW? Infinity War might not have happened if not for half the Avengers being on the run. Humans always have the tendency to join against the bigger enemy, and the bigger enemy is clearly in space.

[up] Yep, I am not in a hurry for X-men, but I want the Fantastic four and the silver surfer in a proper adaptation! Though I would prefer it if Disney discards everything from the Fox x-men verse except deadpool.

Edited by Swanpride on May 7th 2019 at 1:05:39 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#102043: May 7th 2019 at 1:05:38 PM

Yeah, and that ended HOW? Infinity War might not have happened if not for half the Avengers being on the run. Humans always have the tendency to join against the bigger enemy, and the bigger enemy is clearly in space.

There is no bigger enemy in space any more, as far as the people of Earth know. Now it is, once again, just them alone together with their own problems to deal with.

Also, Tony's talk about how there was a bigger enemy and they needed to stand together didn't work the first time. The Avengers were able to operate as they did after Infinity War because they were the only ones left.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 7th 2019 at 1:07:23 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#102044: May 7th 2019 at 1:06:22 PM

Only if there's an immediate threat.

Even then that's not much of a solution in the long run.

Edited by slimcoder on May 7th 2019 at 1:06:44 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#102045: May 7th 2019 at 1:07:04 PM

There are scary aliens out there. Which destroyed Asgard.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#102046: May 7th 2019 at 1:08:37 PM

I'm sure Asgard would join forces against anything, and I doubt they'd be forbidding to others who are different given the (modern day) culture's collective experiences. But Asgard is somewhat less representative of Earth as a whole than most.

And even immediate threats have never stopped racism. There a fun bit in To Kill A Mockingbird that mocks this idea, with some upstanding people of the community decrying the Nazis and their oppressive regime while in the same breath supporting a kangaroo court against a black man.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 7th 2019 at 1:16:24 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102047: May 7th 2019 at 1:14:17 PM

At a certain point, does the "secret society of X that hid for dozens or hundreds of years throughout all of the conflicts, only to pop out when we need to origin story some fools" theme get a bit old, even for the MCU?

Heck, Endgame even goes out of its way to retcon the society of sorcerers into The Avengers. How many times can we replay that?


To the other point, the universe kind of fell apart after the Snap — half of the villains were missing along with half of the heroes and half of the ordinary people. That's obviously no longer the case, so there's still a ton of potential badguys out there.

Edited by Fighteer on May 7th 2019 at 4:16:22 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#102048: May 7th 2019 at 1:14:24 PM

Technically Loki destroyed Asgard. Him or Surtur. But Thor told Loki to do it so.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#102049: May 7th 2019 at 1:17:08 PM

It's not that I think that it would completely stop racism...I mean, the watchdogs are a thing in the MCU after all...but in order to get an x-men like world, people have to see the X-men as the biggest threat to their future. It is hard to sell that being the most widespread mind-set in the mcu.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#102050: May 7th 2019 at 1:17:41 PM

[up][up][up] True, but as I said there's no reason for the X-Men to even be a decades old organization in the first place. They could be founded in real time.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 7th 2019 at 1:21:34 AM


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