TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#102001: May 7th 2019 at 9:43:17 AM

The solution is to give Aunt May superpowers obviously

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102002: May 7th 2019 at 9:44:06 AM

Tobias: Very well put. I will qualify what you wrote with the caveat that Peter Parker is a young adult (in most continuities) with an active social environment: friends and family and love interests, all of whom he has an investment in protecting as well. He goes to school, he has a mundane job, he's pursuing a love life, all as Peter Parker, not as Spider-Man. Getting his feet tangled in maintaining these identities is part of the core of that character, whether they know who he really is or not.

  • Steve Rogers doesn't have that problem. All of his friends and family are either long dead or part of his superhero circle.
  • Tony is publicly known as Iron Man, he's already a success in his private persona and has built his lifestyle so that he can fulfill both roles — or rather, in the MCU, he gives up his control over Stark Enterprises to be a full-time hero. Sure, he has to juggle his relationship with Pepper, but she can take care of herself. That said, there's the time in Iron Man 3 when he gives out his address and promptly gets bombed for his trouble.
  • Thor doesn't have a secret identity: he is Thor, so that's out. When he has a love interest (Jane Foster), protecting her is a big deal, so that comes up quite a bit.
  • Natasha's life is her superhero identity, so not a consideration.
  • Clint is known as Hawkeye, and his family is never under direct threat in the MCU; rather he keeps retiring so they don't lose him.
  • Scott is known as Ant-Man, and the need to protect his family directly never really comes into play in his movies, since the antagonists are always less concerned about Scott himself than they are about getting their hands on Pym tech.
  • Bruce may have family, but it never comes up in the MCU (maybe in Hulk, but I haven't seen that), and his superhero identity is public.
  • Carol has no close family, so there's nothing to protect. She's Captain Marvel full-time.

I guess this leaves Spidey to be the one doing the most juggling of identities. That's kind of his thing, and I accept it as long as it doesn't get too heavy-handed.

Edited by Fighteer on May 7th 2019 at 12:47:00 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#102003: May 7th 2019 at 9:45:07 AM

It helps that most of the people who don't have secret identities in the Marvel Universe are government agents, powerful or influential people in their own right, or closely part of the Avengers fold without much life outside of it.

Unlike DC, Marvel typically reserves a secret identity for its loner and everyman heroes - Peter is hardly the only one. And the ones who do fit those character types yet don't maintain a secret identity - like Luke Cage - still build both their personal and private lives around the hero lifestyle, such that while they do get attacked by they're enemies, their lives are built around dealing with it (like, for example, Luke and Jessica both joining the New Avengers full time, and hiring a superhero babysitter).

By Marvel standards, Peter giving up his secret identity would coincide by him giving up his life outside of Spider-Man, because that's what everyone who doesn't have one in the Marvel Universe does. Even the brief period where his identity was revealed eventually coalesced into him giving up his teaching job and living full time in Avengers tower.

Edit: Lol, all those big responses in the span of like a minute. Super [nja]'d.

Either way, I agree that secret identities are for the world at large, not for your closest friends who are actually affected by your actions - the upkeep of which ranges from being a liability, to simply being heinous and nasty. Spidey should be lying to Jameson and Osborn. Not to his girlfriends.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 7th 2019 at 10:15:25 AM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#102004: May 7th 2019 at 9:46:57 AM

Also, y'all are forgetting about Daredevil, who also has a secret identity and every time he loses it, his friends are almost immediately targeted.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#102005: May 7th 2019 at 9:57:28 AM

It's the typical difference between vigilantes and people who fight the "big guns" so to speak. Small time criminals are way more likely to target your family than aliens are. (Though I kind of hope that exactly that will happen in the next Captain Marvel, but that's a different story).

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#102006: May 7th 2019 at 10:02:31 AM

If you think Spider-Man's life is a miserable shitshow, talk about Daredevil...

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#102007: May 7th 2019 at 10:23:48 AM

Something that was initially a factor in Spidey’s secret identity but has gradually been forgotten is that Peter originally didn’t tell May that he’ Spider-Man because she was in very delicate health. He was afraid she would have a literal heart attack upon discovery.

Now MCU May is only around 50 so it doesn’t really matter. tongue

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#102008: May 7th 2019 at 10:28:24 AM

Even the comics have long since moved past the old fashioned "helpless little old lady" bit with May.

When Peter told May (a couple years before revealing it to anyone), she told him off for thinking she was a delicate flower who'd fall apart whenever she learned anything ridiculous. I don't remember if she ever learned it again post OMD, but she really should.

Hell, the Raimi series was as Silver Age as it came, and even it pretty blatantly implied that May knew he was Spider-Man and was just humoring him. Enter The Spider Verse uses Ultimate May, who is old and who knows and who is badass.

The only thing to keep it in recent memory is The Spectacular Spider-Man, which at least punctuated it by actually giving her a heart attack.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 7th 2019 at 10:31:28 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#102009: May 7th 2019 at 10:37:54 AM

So May can stand getting attacked by random guys who want to use Peter Parker to get to Spiderman but her heart would go out of she learns the truth?

Yeah, pull another one.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#102010: May 7th 2019 at 10:44:10 AM

Speaking of Peter Parker, that's another thing about his secret identity that always rang hollow. In the comics, Peter's still pretty famous for being Spider-Man adjacent.

He transitioned from Spidey's personal photographer to Spidey's official weapons developer. Everyone knows that if you want to get to Spidey, you start at Peter Parker.

With that in mind, what even is the point of having a secret identity?

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#102011: May 7th 2019 at 10:46:01 AM

It is enough separation that villains kidnap him instead of trying to kill him to lure out Spider-Man but given that this happens more than once you’d think if he really cared about secret identity he wouldn’t work as anything directly connected with Spider-Man

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#102012: May 7th 2019 at 10:52:54 AM

Peter Parker is the kind of person who a secret identity makes sense for. A major theme of his character is that he's actually vulnerable to society. In most stories, both Spiderman and Parker are not particularly well-liked by society at large. He might be a badass, but there isn't much he can do to keep himself safe from society itself.

By contrast, Tony Stark is a billionaire in relatively good standing with the public. Not much the common bad guy can do to directly hurt him. For that matter, since he designed weapons for the US military, he already had a ton of bad guys hating his guts.

Leviticus 19:34
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#102013: May 7th 2019 at 11:04:03 AM

To put this in the reality of the MCU: There is a reason why clint kept his family secret even from his fellow agents. Peter, Scott and Black Panther are the only other ones who have family, and Black Panther has an army to protect his family while Scot's daughter is living with a police officer (and still ends up in danger).

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#102014: May 7th 2019 at 11:07:28 AM

What’s funny about Ant-Man is that due to his participation in the airport fight, it’s not exactly a secret identity but he’s also not prominent enough that the public knows or cares

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#102015: May 7th 2019 at 11:09:23 AM

[up]x6 If we’re talking 616 continuity, Aunt May should have died a long time ago.

I mean, how many times has she died, only to be reversed immediately after? Like probably the best of these was The Amazing Spider-Man #400, which had Aunt May finally tell Peter that she knew he was Spider-Man before she died (which the most recent Videogame borrowed), but was promptly reversed in the ensuing nuttiness of The Clone Saga.

A new “Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man” title actually has Aunt May getting Cancer so we’ll see where that goes.

Amusingly, the story also has Doctor Strange telling Peter not to make deals with inter-dimensional Demons.

Edited by megaeliz on May 7th 2019 at 2:17:19 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102016: May 7th 2019 at 11:09:55 AM

[up][up][up]And Clint isn't a main character in any MCU film, so they aren't going to spend a lot of time going into the threat to his family, if any.

[up][up] A fact mercilessly and hilariously mocked by Endgame. [lol]

Edited by Fighteer on May 7th 2019 at 2:10:40 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#102017: May 7th 2019 at 11:11:22 AM

Hiding your actual identity from those close to you sort of insinuates that you do not have any faith in them to not blab about your hero identity. It does not "protect them" and it causes more problems then it solves.

I'd actually like to see that mentioned: a hero refuses to tell a person their secret because they have absolutely zero trust in them to not talk.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#102018: May 7th 2019 at 11:12:57 AM

Clint is an interesting case in that his home life and family technically IS his secret identity. He has two identities, one as a SHIELD agent and Avengers member named Clint Barton with a codename of Hawkeye, and one as a family man who lives on a farm. One of those is secret, and it's not his superhero identity.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#102019: May 7th 2019 at 11:19:28 AM

Honestly, it is kind of a wonder that all of Peter's classmates haven't figured it out yet, but there is a high chance that they will have by the end of Far from home….

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102020: May 7th 2019 at 11:20:01 AM

Except Flash, whose obliviousness to Peter's double life is a running gag in almost every continuity.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#102021: May 7th 2019 at 11:22:07 AM

Personally, I follow Linkara's opinion about a Secret Identity: that it makes sense to have one that hide your identity from supervillains, and, if you're not legally superheroing, local authorities, but not loved ones and families, who if you trust them with the secret should really just be allowed to know, if just to ensure all the needless drama Tobias described above.

I do however think Secret Identity still is important for some heroes, it's just more important for some than others. For example, Batman needs it because it's part of his whole becoming a Boogeyman for villains - the fact they never really know who's behind the mask help reinforce his image as a monster.

In Peter's case, it's important because, with the exception of some arcs, he usually is fairly poor and cannot afford to protect his family all-time. Meanwhile, Iron Man has an entire company with probably more than enough money to hire bodyguards, Steve Rogers technically a SHIELD operative in the MCU, so pretty sure he has protection from the government, and the Fantastic Four, aside from all having superpowers, have an entire building with high tech security as their home, and probably to protect themselves.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#102022: May 7th 2019 at 11:31:08 AM

Though it would be fun to see flash figuring it out and then struggling with the revelation….

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#102023: May 7th 2019 at 11:39:44 AM

Except Flash, whose obliviousness to Peter's double life is a running gag in almost every continuity.

To put that into context, in the 616 comics, Spider-Man publicly unmasked at the start of Civil War. Iron Man held a press conference where Peter announced his identity as Peter Parker, as a show of support for the Registration Act.

Flash was still oblivious. He was a gym coach at the school where Peter taught science at the time, and he kept insisting that Peter was doing this to cover for the real Spider-Man. Take the fall, let Spidey keep operating in secret.

Peter had to kick Flash's ass in a basketball game using his spider-powers to finally convince him it was real.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 7th 2019 at 12:40:08 PM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#102024: May 7th 2019 at 11:41:24 AM

Honestly, what bothers me the most about Spider-Man and his secret identity is how often they pull the "Oh no! Peter had a social obligation but now he has to run off and stop some crooks! What kind of drama will this create in his personal life?" thing. Even Homecoming, great movie though it is, does this three times with Liz's party, the academic decathlon, and homecoming. Arguably four times if you count the pre-decathlon swimming he said he'd do.

It's not just tiresome and repetitive, it makes me seriously question why Peter Parker even bothers to try to have a social life at this point. He should realize by now that the two lives are mutually-exclusive, and his friends and family should realize by now that Peter is too flaky to bother having any sort of relationship with short of an intervention.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#102025: May 7th 2019 at 11:48:10 AM

It should probably also be noted that the importance of a secret identity also invokes another superhero plot contrivance: the Cardboard Prison. Peter needs a secret identity because of the implicit assertion that if he puts Doc Ock in prison today, Ock will be out and gunning for his family tomorrow.

As opposed to spending the next twenty years behind bars and no longer being a concern for the Parker family.

This is typically what makes up the difference between fictional superheroes and real-world cops. Actual police officers don't have secret identities because when Bob Murders goes to prison for murders, he doesn't break out of jail immediately and then go attack Officer Frank's family for putting him in jail.

For the sake of continuing to have infinitely perpetual superhero plots in a medium where nothing ever ends, villains

  1. Are never neutralized. Not by prison. Not even by death. They will always continue to be a threat to the hero forever.
  2. Always develop a retributive vendetta against any superhero who messes with them, singling out that specific hero and forging an archnemesis relationship with them. Whatever they used to be about, it inevitably is replaced by "Kill My Favorite Superhero" once writers run out of ideas but still want to use the character.

A hundred years from now we'll all be dead and gone, and Norman Osborn will still be breaking out of prison and/or resurrecting himself to try to kill Spider-Man. This makes the secret identity more valuable in superhero comics than it necessarily would be in real life or, alternately, in a story that actually had endings and permanent consequences and shit.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 7th 2019 at 12:49:28 PM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

Total posts: 186,763
Top