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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Oh, Tony is partly right, that's what I like about Civil war. But more regarding the "we need to be put in check" part, not regarding the actual accords. they could have been done in a way that they wouldn't violate the constitution not just of the US but pretty much every democratic country on earth.
Definitely. The Accords themselves, taken purely as a legal document, are a steaming pile of crap (although sadly it wouldn't be anywhere near the first time that things like that have happened in history — see Japanese internment for just one example). It's a little disappointing in one way because it reduces the morality of the conflict to Tony vs. Steve rather than the Avengers vs. the United Nations, but it's important to remember that the MacGuffin always serves the plot, not the other way around.
Edited by Fighteer on May 7th 2019 at 9:51:10 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"And to be fair, Peter is the worst at keeping his secret identity. In any continuity.
At this point most likely any secret government organisation knows exactly who Spider-Man is. And I guess it makes sense that those close to him will figure it out (which I prefer over the stupid "we I protect said person by leaving her cluelessly in danger approach" anyway). As long as the criminals don't know it, he will be fine. Good thing that Vulture has reasons to keep silent on this.
You know, it would be kind of funny if the sinister six are forming and at least half of the members are actually planning to secretly help Spider-Man because they owe him something, and keep getting in each others way trying to do it.
Edited by Swanpride on May 7th 2019 at 7:40:50 AM
That’s part of why I loved the Spider-Marriage
MJ knew about the danger and was able to protect herself, either through web shooters disguised as bracelets or just knowing enough about comic book nonsense to recognize when the Chameleon was impersonating Peter so she could beat seven kinds of shit out of him with a baseball bat
Forever liveblogging the AvengersOne of the big things about Spider-Man across all continuities is his drive to protect his friends and family, because his enemies will target them (either deliberately or via coincidental proximity). Having them in the know doesn't change this in any fundamental way, but it does make his job a little bit easier. It also means we don't have to go through the frankly torturous contrivances of him trying to keep his identity secret.
Lastly, it's just plain more honest of him. If he's going to pursue MJ (or indeed any love interest), hiding his identity is a totally shitty thing to do from a pure relationship standpoint.
Managing the duality of his life is a core theme, but it doesn't mean he has to be an idiot about it.
Edited by Fighteer on May 7th 2019 at 11:02:14 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Aunt May drugging the Chameleon is great, but my favorite thing to come of Aunt May learning Peter's secret identity was her spamming J. Jonah Jameson with hate mail about how mean he is to that poor Spider-Man.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Apparently it is cyanide and this was probably a writer goof but it works on a character level that Aunt May may have gotten them mixed up and that Chameleon would be too woozy to note the error
Forever liveblogging the AvengersHere is one of my rules about superhero identities:
Hiding your actual identity from strangers and villains? Reasonable and understandable.
Hiding your actual identity from those close to you sort of insinuates that you do not have any faith in them to not blab about your hero identity. It does not "protect them" and it causes more problems then it solves.
Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.The worst version of this is that there is a publicly known connection between a superhero and their civilian ID. Such as the case in the Rami Spider-Man films. Which means supervillians often end up targeting the superhero's family anyways even though the whole point was nominally to keep them safe.
Because she wasn't blindly walking into danger while wondering where the hell Peter was.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Which is pretty much the point of keeping them in the dark. It's a Doylist decision because it allows for cheap drama to be milked out of the hero trying to balance his secret identity home-life without letting on that he's a superhero. It lets them put him in awkward situations like "Aunt May wants him to sit down to dinner with her new friend, but also Electro is robbing a McDonalds in Queens. OH NO!"
Or "Peter is on a date with MJ, but then suddenly the Shocker starts shooting up the restaurant! How will he slip away so he can put on his suit and fight Shocker, without letting her know that he's Spider-Man?! And will she ever go on another date with him, thinking he heartlessly abandoned her?!"
At the end of the day, this is the primary function of a secret identity. It's an easy plot device for writing personal drama into the hero's home and dating life. I'm not fond of it and think that if you've seen one "OH NO MY SECRET IDENTITY" plot, you've seen them all. But then, I'm not fond of the device, period, so that may color my perspective.
Similarly, characters who are "supposed" to have secret identities will often be punished by having their fears reinforced if the identity slips. Peter Parker can't reveal his identity as Spider-Man without having a million supervillains jump on Aunt May tomorrow. Yet somehow, superheroes with public identities exist in the same universe and seem to manage just fine.
Steve Rogers, Sam Wilson, Tony Stark, Rhodey, Luke Cage, Carol Danvers, Bruce Banner, Jennifer Walters, Danny Rand, Clint Barton, Natasha Romanova, Jessica Jones, Wade Wilson, Jessica Drew, etc. etc. The Marvel Universe has a ton of superheroes with no secret identities, and they get along just fine. They have friends and families and the occasional super-threat poking into their personal lives but they deal with it.
But if Spider-Man's identity is ever discovered, BOOM, it's open season on everyone who's ever so much as been in a room with him. The Marvel Universe has very arbitrary enforcement regarding the importance of secret identities. What it really boils down to is that protecting one's secret identity is very important if, and only if, you are already a superhero with a secret identity.
This creates a very weird dynamic where, like, it's A BIG DEAL for Spider-Man to protect his identity because of the devastating consequences in Spider-Man comics for those times he's failed to do so. But it's also NO BIG DEAL for Spider-Man to protect his identity because half the f*cking Marvel Universe doesn't have a secret identity and is no worse for wear for it.
If you measure exclusively by Spider-Man comics, his secret identity is extremely important. If you measure by Marvel comics as a whole, his secret identity is unnecessary and arbitrary.
EDIT: I'll also add that those "OH NO SECRET IDENTITY" plots bother me because if there is a crime in progress and a responder able to do something, I'd like for them to just respond.
If Hate-Monger breaks into a Denny's and starts shooting guns at people and Peter's two booths down, I'd like him to just jump out of his booth and deck Hate-Monger. I don't want the headline the next day to be, "Hate-Monger shoots 47 people while Spider-Man is in the back room, changing his pants."
That never happens in comics, of course, due to plot contrivance. There's always ample time for the hero to escape, get in costume, and return before anyone's life is actually jeopardized. But I can't stop thinking about it when I think of secret identity superheroes.
Edited by TobiasDrake on May 7th 2019 at 10:39:20 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Now that the Civil Warring has died down there’s nothing really stopping him from getting Avengers protection again except that the writers don’t want to
It creates a weird disconnect where Peter would do anything to protect his loved ones, even lying to them but won’t call in favors with the superhero community if it’s not grounded enough
Or there will be some arbitrary bullshit why he can’t, like with the Dr Strange spell that could only ever be cast once
Forever liveblogging the AvengersHowever, there has been a team of superheroes who have never had secret identities: the Fantastic Four. And yes, supervillains have targeted their home...many, many times, but since every one of the FF has superpowers (even Franklin and Valeria), they can protect themselves. Not so for someone like Peter Parker's family: during Civil War, after Peter revealed his secret identity, the Kingpin immediately had Aunt May shot.
So while it would make sense for Peter to tell his family and close friends about his secret identity, he still has to keep it secret from the world or else those same family and friends will become targets.
For some characters, it makes sense to not have a secret identity. For Spider-Man, it doesn't.
Edited by alliterator on May 7th 2019 at 9:45:35 AM
