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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#101951: May 7th 2019 at 12:58:50 AM

Miles is indeed not the first Spider-Man.

A big part of his character is him being the second Spider-Man due to following in the legacy of the previous Spider-Man.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#101952: May 7th 2019 at 1:13:03 AM

[up]. Honestly though, MCU Peter is arguably closer to Miles than 616 Peter. They stole his best friend, his school, and he’s still a teen, instead of the fully grown adult he’s been since the end of the Silver Age.

Marvel generally uses A Sliding Timescale so the first Lee/Ditko run is still very Broad Strokes cannon, right?

Edited by megaeliz on May 7th 2019 at 4:16:59 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#101953: May 7th 2019 at 1:18:02 AM

I roll my eyes every time I read something about the makers of Homecoming "stealing" character elements from Miles.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#101954: May 7th 2019 at 1:20:46 AM

[up]. I mean that broadly. grin

Though the creators of Spider-Verse have talked about their “Oh Crap” moment, after seeing homecoming, since they were originally planning to have Ganke play a big role in the first act of the movie. You can actually see that cut in the alt Universe Mode on the Blu Ray

Edited by megaeliz on May 7th 2019 at 4:27:42 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#101955: May 7th 2019 at 2:08:24 AM

Well, Miles is a legacy character and that is exactly the problem with legacy characters: You need to earn them!!!! It is way too early to kill Spider-Man off, so we will have to wait for Miles. Most likely for a long time because frankly, ideally we will get to see Spider-Man going through college and marrying and so on this time around. No half-measures, I want them to follow out favourite web slingers for a while.

The upside is that by the time we get to Miles, what it means to be a teen will have changed again. I suspect that Marvel will always have one teen character, and I suspect the order will be Spider-Man, Kamala, Miles.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#101956: May 7th 2019 at 2:10:03 AM

Wait, people complained about Falcon getting the shield over Bucky?! I didn't notice any outrage.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#101957: May 7th 2019 at 2:42:10 AM

Welp, I guess I just spoiled Endgame for myself. I guess it's my fault for not realizing this thread suddenly became an Endgame spoiler thread.

Edited by M84 on May 7th 2019 at 5:42:36 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#101958: May 7th 2019 at 2:49:26 AM

The movie has been out for over a week now, but real Endgame spoilers should still have spoiler tags.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#101959: May 7th 2019 at 3:23:44 AM

Yeah, well, but we really should try avoiding discussing anything endgame related here….there is a separate discussion for it for a reason.

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#101960: May 7th 2019 at 3:40:01 AM

I still love that we're having honest-to-goodness Fishbowl-Headed Mysterio, and he looks so goddamn good.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#101961: May 7th 2019 at 3:57:22 AM

as long as everything is an illusion then he's authentic Mysterio

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#101962: May 7th 2019 at 4:02:47 AM

Just as long as they don't turn him into a child-killing asshat like that one Daredevil story did.

That storyline pretty much ruined the character for me.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#101963: May 7th 2019 at 4:02:56 AM

[up]Honestly I never really got why his fishbowl helmet was so mocked as a kid.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#101964: May 7th 2019 at 4:10:50 AM

Because it does look ridiculous,you can't see his head so you get the impression the bowl IS his head and thats just silly

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#101965: May 7th 2019 at 4:18:16 AM

I don't think it looks that ridiculous. It's not too different from astronaut or deep-sea diving helmets, both of which look fine.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#101967: May 7th 2019 at 4:44:16 AM

#101937:

I have to disagree with the assessment made a few pages ago regarding Spider-Man: Homecoming, that it doesn't really have much to do with Uncle Ben or his message. I disagree because I felt Homecoming embody "with great power comes great responsibility" MUCH, MUCH more than any Spider-Man movie previously. The whole movie is about Peter Parker learning to take responsibility for his failures and becoming responsible for himself and knowing his limitations.

This is exactly what I was trying to get across, perhaps not as clearly as you. There's something very ironic about Tony Stark, of all people, teaching Peter Parker about responsibility, but having the surrogate father figure be deeply flawed as well adds a great deal of depth to the storytelling.

In Far from Home, it seems that Peter's taken a different message to heart: he accepts the responsibility of being Spider-Man, but he also wants to be a normal kid, and the main character conflict will be him moving into a more leadership-focused role.

@M84: Sorry about that, but I cut myself off from this thread for about two weeks prior to Endgame precisely because of that concern. We're past the official spoiler embargo, anyway, and it's all but impossible to discuss the Far From Home trailer without at least some spoilers.

Edited by Fighteer on May 7th 2019 at 7:46:21 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#101968: May 7th 2019 at 4:58:41 AM

Hell, even Spider-Verse, as much as people gush about it, still doesn't really focus on the "responsibility" theme. It's more about Miles growing and becoming a hero, but it even cuts off the "with great power" quote right before the word "responsibility".

Homecoming is, to date, the only Spider-Man movie that I think actually makes "taking responsibility" into its core theme, and that's why it feels so true to the character for me, even more so than Spider-Verse. That's why I still think Homecoming is the best Spider-Man film, because it actually builds its themes and story structure around the idea of responsibility instead of just paying the word lip service.

It approaches responsibility from a lot of different angles and perspectives, and analyzes different ways someone can be responsible and take responsibility for themselves, instead of just the basic "be a responsible hero by helping others".

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on May 7th 2019 at 4:59:37 AM

jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#101969: May 7th 2019 at 5:01:17 AM

The debate about Mysterio being described as a sorcerer and whether this is just more of his usual illusionist shtick looks very much like running headlong into Clarke's Third Law from my perspective. If he IS somehow behind the elemental monsters and not the hero he's described as, then his tech/illusion skills are off the chain as these things are doing actual real damage in real time from what we've seen. If they are "just'' robots or illusions then he's on another level to pretty much anyone we've seen so far.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#101970: May 7th 2019 at 5:04:31 AM

[up][up][up] Well, the endgame spoiler discussion is a good place to do it safely.

Edited by Swanpride on May 7th 2019 at 5:04:45 AM

Lyendith Since: Mar, 2011
#101971: May 7th 2019 at 5:37:49 AM

The first era of the MCU was kickstarted by a dramatic and solemn "I am Iron Man."

The new era of the MCU is kickstarted by dramatic and solemn "I am… −You're Spiderman, aren't you. −No. −Duh, everyone has figured it out already."

I don't know if that's deliberate, but that made me chuckle. evil grin

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#101972: May 7th 2019 at 5:57:26 AM

My god.

I like watching trailers and all but youtube, for the love of god, stop bombarding me with the "X things you missed in X MCU trailer".

Nobody likes those videos, they are dumb and a waste of time.

Uni cat
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#101973: May 7th 2019 at 6:04:36 AM

[up][up]MJ has been portrayed as extremely intelligent so far, and she's already picked up on the weird Peter/Spider-Man duality in Homecoming. It would be strange for her not to figure it out, and it works very well with Marvel's insistence on giving female side characters more agency.

Edited by Fighteer on May 7th 2019 at 9:05:25 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#101974: May 7th 2019 at 6:07:18 AM

Something completely different: Examining the Sokovia Accords legally.

Cap was right, btw.

Also, I always wonder who is even watching those "x things you missed" vids. The fact aside that they tend to be very light on anything but the obvious, who even wants to know exactly that? I am STILL p... off that someone discovered Bucky's hacked off arm in the background of this Civil War trailer.

Edited by Swanpride on May 7th 2019 at 6:09:27 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#101975: May 7th 2019 at 6:15:04 AM

[up] That came up already a few pages ago. What I said then, and I will repeat for those who missed it, is that the video specifically and only addresses the legality of the Accords with respect to the U.S. Constitution, and not their ethics or morality. Now, the points highlighted do also sound extremely vague and indefensible from a moral standpoint, but that's not the thrust of Tony's argument for the Accords.

While we are obviously intended to root for Steve in Civil War (he is, after all, the protagonist), I find a moral conflict to be far more compelling if both sides have reasonable points, and Tony does make some good ones. It's just that he's also consumed by his own traumas and failures and is projecting them onto the rest of the Avengers. The tragedy of the film is that they could have worked it out peacefully, and, even more, that their failure to do so leads inexorably to the defeat in Infinity War.

Edited by Fighteer on May 7th 2019 at 9:17:40 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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