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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#101926: May 6th 2019 at 7:55:29 PM

Their issue is more with the way the Russos (and some others) framed it by insinuating that Bucky didn't deserve it because he's damaged goods, too crazy and broken to have it, as if the abuse and brainwashing was somehow a personal failing of his

Buh? The movie said or implied absolutely none of this.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#101928: May 6th 2019 at 7:56:24 PM

There was an interview or something where the Russos explained their choice.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#101929: May 6th 2019 at 7:56:30 PM

Not the movie, but there was an interview that came out later on where they talked about it. From the movies I thought that it was because he was tired, but apparently that's not the case anymore (?). Hell, even if the issue was that Bucky saw himself as too broken it'd be one thing, but the focus seemed to be "nah, he really just is too damaged".

[down] Maybe it's part of it, but the one I saw was about something else.

Edited by AlleyOop on May 6th 2019 at 10:59:06 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#101930: May 6th 2019 at 7:57:29 PM

" Comparing the two, Bucky has gone through the ringer and while he can fight, he's very clearly a broken man who has spent the last four movies (end of Winter Soldier, Civil War, Infinity War, and end of Endgame) clearly wanting to stop fighting and get some well deserved rest. He has done his battles, and is working on himself."

If this section is an actual quote from the interview it seems that it is because he's tired.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#101931: May 6th 2019 at 8:01:21 PM

[up][up]I mean, a thing can have multiple reasons for existing or not existing. There's literally no reason that Bucky can't decline being Captain America, or Steve can decide not to make him the next Captain America, both because he's tired of fighting and certainly doesn't want to take up the intense full-time responsibility that being Captain America demands and ALSO he and Cap both realize that his time as the Winter Soldier (as well as public perception of said time since Captain America isn't exactly a private job in these films) means he's a less than ideal pick.

TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#101932: May 6th 2019 at 8:02:59 PM

Bucky sure as shit didn't look happy when they approached him with the arm in IW. And I think its important to note that it was Bucky himself who directed Sam to Steve at the end. That certainly gave me the vibe that he already knew whats up and approved of Sam as Cap's successor. Also of note is that Steve choose to follow in Sam's footsteps during the 5 year gap by running a support group - that detail in particular was not lost on me when Steve handed over the shield.

Edited by TheAirman on May 6th 2019 at 10:04:33 AM

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#101933: May 6th 2019 at 8:04:35 PM

It should be pointed out that as is typical of the comics Bucky-as-Cap was a hero with a secret identity and his run was ended when his real identity was blown since the world knew him as a murderer and criminal.

I get why they didn't talk more earlier to preserve the twist but I think some sort of further conversation between Bucky and Steve would've been very helpful to have afterward to help cement the torch-passing and the rationale for his actions.

Edited by AlleyOop on May 6th 2019 at 11:06:47 AM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#101934: May 6th 2019 at 8:12:41 PM

[up][up][up][up]It's not. That's my wording. The Russo quote, from this USA Today interview, ended with the quotation marks of the paragraph mentioned. Spoilers throughout the link, obviously.

[up][up]This.

As for the "damaged" part, that's their wording, not mine: I don't mean to imply that. Me personally, I'm a lot of things. A black man and Sam Wilson fan. Friends with many Bucky fans who see the good in all of them. A mental wellness advocate and someone living with some concerns myself.
I don't think Bucky is, or believes he is, too broken to do any good. He can still do a lot of good, though he may not necessarily make all the most "Captain America" of decisions. I think he's due for a well earned break from constant fighting, and knows, just as Cap knows, that Sam is better for the job.
Hell, several of the original 6 Avengers showed how people take different routes though living with depression or other mental health concerns. Notably, Natasha was the only one actively doing positive heroing, but sadly, she and Clint (who went the anger route) were the ones faced with the suicide mission.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on May 6th 2019 at 10:19:20 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#101935: May 6th 2019 at 8:15:43 PM

Well, that's my bad.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#101936: May 6th 2019 at 9:20:34 PM

Come to think of it, Mysterio going "I'm a wizard hero from another dimension" would be a pretty neat modernization of his "I'm a wizard hero" bit from his first appearance.

Just like the original, it's just fantastical enough to be believable to both the audience and the characters... at first. It fits in with the universe as a whole, while not necessarily attaching to anything specific. And this being a time with even more bells and whistles attached to its fantastical concepts than the 60's (which is saying something), the story too has more bells and whistles than before.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#101937: May 6th 2019 at 9:37:24 PM

I have to disagree with the assessment made a few pages ago regarding Spider-Man: Homecoming, that it doesn't really have much to do with Uncle Ben or his message. I disagree because I felt Homecoming embody "with great power comes great responsibility" MUCH, MUCH more than any Spider-Man movie previously. The whole movie is about Peter Parker learning to take responsibility for his failures and becoming responsible for himself and knowing his limitations.

Uncle Ben wasn't mentioned much in Homecoming, but I felt the soul of the character deep within the movie's themes in a way that no other Spider-Man films had properly captured before.

Both the Toby Maguire and Andrew Garfield movies had the problem of Spider-Man acting extremely irresponsibly even at the very end of the movies, after Peter Parker had supposedly already learned his lesson and grown as a character. Uncle Ben's message felt more like shallow window-dressing, something included just because it's important to the character, with no regard to actually tie it into the themes of the movie.

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#101938: May 6th 2019 at 10:00:43 PM

Regardless, I am glad the MCU doesn't use Uncle Ben as a crutch for Peter's characterisation.

Heck, my most favourite takes on Spider-Man are still Spectacular and Into The Spider-Verse, but I certainly don't need Peter Parker to be a guilt-ridden sadsack in every single one of his incarnations. There is nothing wrong with MCU Spider-Man, and I love him.

Edited by Nightwire on May 6th 2019 at 10:35:00 AM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#101939: May 6th 2019 at 10:14:11 PM

Crutch, not clutch.

I have a feeling this Mysterio (who I keep wanting to spell as Misterio) going the route of failure in his own home, trying to make it big elsewhere. Probably things he can fill the Stark void. But is there a trope for that? I keep thinking of Booster Gold, but I'm not familiar with if Fishbowl Head was always like that, or specifically the "use hollywood effects to pretend to be a hero", which I think is a different trope.

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#101940: May 6th 2019 at 10:51:22 PM

How crazy it would be if this Mysterio turned out to actually be 616!Mysterio, trying to pull the exact same shit he did in Earth-1610?

MedusaStone Since: Jan, 2015
#101941: May 6th 2019 at 11:02:56 PM

Okay, so as a "rabid Bucky fan-girl" I didn't want him to get the shield either, I think that's an incredibly unfair burden to put on him. And I think Sam will be a great Captain America. Not only does he represent current-day America, but a Cap that not only has the shield, but flies and uses guns? That's pure awesome. Although I admit I kind of wish they could've found a way for Steve, Sam, and Bucky to have all been Captain America at the same time, trading off days. Mostly because I like the idea of Peter posting a picture of them all in uniform at the same time and bringing back the 'all Caps' meme.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#101942: May 6th 2019 at 11:03:07 PM

[up][up]Quick, check your comic books and see if Mysterio hasn’t been showing up on the pages recently.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on May 6th 2019 at 11:03:26 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#101943: May 6th 2019 at 11:32:57 PM

Fun idea: Mysterio isn't from another universe, but In the final post credits scene, Mysterio is contacted in prison by the a true Mysterio from another universe - the 616 one who attempts to take his place.

Mysterio tries to tell someone, but by that point nobody believes him.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 6th 2019 at 11:33:19 AM

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#101944: May 6th 2019 at 11:34:22 PM

I’m pretty sure that the official Marvel Multiverse designation for the MCU is Earth-199999, for whatever that’s worth. I guess the question is if it goes both ways?

Is it weird that I’m currently obsessed with Spider-Verse, but Endgame just doesn’t really appeal to me much at all?

I do want to see Captain Marvel, since I haven’t gotten to yet, but Endgame is just kinda meh.

Edited by megaeliz on May 6th 2019 at 2:36:10 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#101945: May 7th 2019 at 12:09:20 AM

Regarding the discussion above, count me in as not being happy about The whole scene with Falcon getting the shield, but for ENTRIRELY different reasons. I didn't want ANYONE to get the shield, hell, I didn't want the whole scene at all, and how it played out is my least favourite part of the movie, though not for the whole "give the shield to someone else" thing. Bucky doesn't need that shot, and Falcon is perfectly great as Falcon, he doesn't need the hand-me-downs of another character. Plus, him running around with shield AND wings he is already using like a shield most of the time will most likely look stupid. All this said: It is done, so I will support him in the role. I won't gripe about it, because I just know that there are a lot of people out there who have very different reasons for their complains than I have, and I will NOT support them in any way or give them ammunition.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#101946: May 7th 2019 at 12:16:15 AM

What someone's gotta use the shield.

What are they supposed to do, retire it?

That's like a waste of a perfectly good shield, plus it being the symbol of justice & all.

Edited by slimcoder on May 7th 2019 at 12:17:13 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#101947: May 7th 2019 at 12:19:53 AM

So are all of these spoilers Endgame spoilers too?

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#101948: May 7th 2019 at 12:21:47 AM

Yes...... wait why are we talking about this here?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#101949: May 7th 2019 at 12:49:40 AM

The shield was destroyed anyway. If Steve hadn't come back with a new one, nobody would have asked what happened to the shield.

To slightly change the topic, it was pretty smart to tie in Far from Home with Endgame. I bet endgame will get a large minute surge shortly before Far from Home gets released, due to people wanting to be "prepared" and I will be very surprised if Far from home doesn't pass the billion mark, too, riding on the hype for Endgame.

Who knows, since Far from home is supposed to count as conclusion for the Infinity Saga now, Marvel actually might manage to hit the average of one billion per movie after all.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#101950: May 7th 2019 at 12:57:05 AM

I would have preferred to see a film like this done with Kamala Khan, a character who fits the tone and themes of Homecoming far better than Peter. Or even better, Miles.

Personally, I’ve always thought that Kamala’s powerset (shapeshifting) would be more suited to animation, since they’re already pretty cartoony in itself, and would be a lot harder to pull off in live action.

The problem I see with trying to do Miles first, is that so much of his story hinges on the fact that he’s not the first Spider-Man.

Edited by megaeliz on May 7th 2019 at 4:00:49 AM


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