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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#101876: May 6th 2019 at 9:49:05 AM

True on a superficial level, but the themes of community - both on a neighborhood scale and on a personal, friendship scale - are far stronger themes for Kamala and MCU Peter than they ever were for comics Peter.

A good way to put it is that while Peter is the friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, that's more in the sense that he's a street level hero. Whereas a primary trait of Kamala and her comics is that she is part of a neighborhood and influenced by the multitude of personal relationships around her.

As a result the Breakfast Club leanings and tropes therein resonate significantly better for Kamala as a character than they do for Peter, who has always been more about balancing his own self-driven nature with forging those connections with others in the first place.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 6th 2019 at 9:53:31 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#101877: May 6th 2019 at 9:49:51 AM

Kamala isn’t much like teen Peter at all. Her character isn’t reducible to just that.

DevilMayhem666 Since: Aug, 2011
#101878: May 6th 2019 at 9:55:58 AM

As for the truth of Beck's story, only time will tell. Considering universe hopping is something in his history, due to the whole thing with Spider-Men, it's only further muddled.

Hope we see Toby and Andrew make an appearance.

Edited by DevilMayhem666 on May 6th 2019 at 12:56:12 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#101879: May 6th 2019 at 9:58:23 AM

> Hope we see Toby and Andrew make an appearance.

In all likelyhood you'll get Garfield but no Toby,everyone seems to have a hate boner towards him for some reason,and no studio is willing to work with him for some reason

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#101880: May 6th 2019 at 10:04:36 AM

Kamala isn’t much like teen Peter at all. Her character isn’t reducible to just that.
Yes, she is quite like Peter: a teen hero who gained powers through an unexpected mutagen and found herself with a great responsibility to use those powers to help others. She is even a science nerd like Peter was, although she also has interests that Peter never had (i.e. fanfiction) and she obviously lacks the tragedy of his parents/Uncle Ben. She also had a circle of friends at school and one frenemy that later becomes a friend, much like Peter did (with Peter, it was Flash Thompson; with Kamala, it was Zoe Zimmer).

But Marvel has been trying to recreate the formula of Spider-Man dozens of times over the years, from Nova to Speedball to Gravity, none of them quite worked out the same way that Kamala did.

I'm not saying that Kamala is exactly the same as Peter Parker, but they were made using the same mold.

Edited by alliterator on May 6th 2019 at 10:05:10 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#101881: May 6th 2019 at 10:05:26 AM

As I said, on a superficial level they're similar, but thematically, tonally and on a characterization level they are very distinct.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#101882: May 6th 2019 at 10:05:35 AM

....People got beef with Toby?

....what the hell did he do?

And it's funny because it's Toby's Spiderman movies that are getting all the references lately: Shout outs in Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse and Spider-Man (PS4) and all.

Plus, people like his first two movies better than both of Garfield's.

One Strip! One Strip!
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#101883: May 6th 2019 at 10:13:02 AM

> what the hell did he do?

No idea but some people have a vehemently disliking of him based off feeling alone

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
DevilMayhem666 Since: Aug, 2011
#101884: May 6th 2019 at 10:19:01 AM

[up][up]

The game also draw plot elements from the Amazing series, such as Harry having a deadly illness and referenced him playing basket ball.

Edited by DevilMayhem666 on May 6th 2019 at 1:20:19 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#101885: May 6th 2019 at 10:20:09 AM

Oh no.

He had to have done something: considering the rash of Sexual Harassment scandals among celebrities in the past few years, I find it hard to believe people are just lashing out at him for no reason.

He's not even annoying like Shia Lebouf or anything.

One Strip! One Strip!
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#101886: May 6th 2019 at 10:22:29 AM

I doubt it,you'd have heard something by now

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#101887: May 6th 2019 at 10:31:54 AM

Andrew Garfield has a lot more hate from the Spider Man fans than Tobey Maguire. If they were going to put in a different Spider-Man from one of the previous movies it would be Tobey Maguire's.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#101888: May 6th 2019 at 10:39:42 AM

[up]The WMG page said Holland wanted Maguire to play Uncle Ben.

Make of that what you will.

123tbones Since: Aug, 2015
#101889: May 6th 2019 at 11:17:35 AM

Also Sony and Garfield are in bad terms so I doubt they would bring him back.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#101890: May 6th 2019 at 11:38:33 AM

I googled "Toby Maguire creep" and this is what I got. It's from last year.

Up today on Vanity Fair is an excerpt from Molly Bloom’s book, Molly’s Game: From Hollywood’s Elite to Wall Street’s Billionaire Boys Club, My High-Stakes Adventure in the World of Underground Poker. It documents her time running a high-stakes poker game for celebrities and wealthy people in the Viper Room, and if the rest of the book is half as interesting as the excerpt, it’s bound to be a fascinating insight into particular celebrities who like to gamble for huge sums of money.

She only uses first names, but some of the celebrities named are obvious: Ben Affleck, Leo Di Caprio, and Tobey Maguire. From the four-page excerpt provided Affleck and Di Caprio seem as you’d expect them to seem: Likable and friendly.

Tobey Maguire, on the other hand, not so much. He seems to be akin to the villain of the novel: A controlling dick who won the most money and left the smallest tips. While it was Molly’s weekly game, Tobey clearly had a lot of control over it. At one point, he brought his $17,000 card-shuffling machine and insisted it be used, but then insisted on charging Molly a $200 rental fee each time it was. He always left the smallest tips, and when he lost, he blew his cool.

One particular scene in the excerpt stands out. It was a very, very high stakes poker game that included Affleck, where the buy-in was $50,000 and the amount of money on the table at one point was $2 million. Maguire, however, was not having a good night, but after knocking out one of the players, Jamie, he decided to assert his power over Molly, who I should mention was a 26-year-old cocktail waitress before she began putting these games together.

Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#101891: May 6th 2019 at 11:50:27 AM

As a reprieve from the Endgame/Far From Home discussion, here is a legal analysis of the Sokovia Accords by a practicing US attorney. And yes, this is a tie-in of sorts to the "One Marvelous Scene" collab project.

Tl;dw the Sokovia Accords would be unconstitutional in the United States for a variety of reasons.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#101892: May 6th 2019 at 11:54:59 AM

I commented on Legal Eagle's video because some people were arguing about whether Steve or Tony was right, and I pointed out that the video is only about the legality of the accords, not their moral basis.

As for the MCU version of Peter Parker, I like it. We don't need the same backstory rehashed over and over and over (*cough* paging Batman writers). Marvel has shown that it can give these characters a fresh take while still remaining true to the core themes of the comics, and that's very much the case here.

To be frank, while I do enjoy the original Spider-Man comics and all of the Sony films (even the Garfield ones, although Spider-Man 3 was ... problematic), I found the constant return to Peter as a hard-luck hero who can't ever do anything good without it being stripped from him in the most cruel and ironic way possible off-putting after the eleven or twelve millionth time it happened. Spidey is best when he's the underdog hero fighting impossible odds with sheer strength of will, and that's why the Homecoming version is so great. Never mind the ending; the scene in the collapsed building is the true essence of the character. Like Carol's confrontation with the Supreme Intelligence in Captain Marvel, it's the emotional climax.

Edited by Fighteer on May 6th 2019 at 3:01:19 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#101893: May 6th 2019 at 12:03:47 PM

“Bitch please, you’ve been to space.”

Jeez Nick, not in front of the kids. You're lucky Captain America is not around to tell you to watch your language.

Edited by windleopard on May 6th 2019 at 12:04:14 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#101894: May 6th 2019 at 12:05:15 PM

I dunno. I mean, I think Homecoming is a great kid hero movie, probably the best live action kid superhero movie out there, but I wouldn’t say it does so by being at all true to the themes of the character. The themes and motivations that drive the character in the films are highly unique to him, and are by and large a departure from Spider-Man as a character (sometimes in very drastic ways): he’s basically an entirely different beast. Hence my saying that thematically it’s a better Kamala Khan movie than a Spider-Man one.

Heck, when it released there was a gag about it.m being a good Robin movie, and it was a joke but there’s a hint of truth to it. Homecoming is somewhat close to what a lighthearted Tim Drake Robin film might look like.

Off the subject of themes, though, I can’t wait to see how Peter screws up his relationship with MJ. If they’re showing them get together and showing us that she knows he’s Spidey in the trailer, that means something is going to go seriously awry in the film itself.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 6th 2019 at 12:08:52 PM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#101895: May 6th 2019 at 12:07:53 PM

Also Re: That Sokovia Accords video, War Machine and Falcon did not create their weapons. Tony created and gave the War Machine armor to Rhodes and the Falcon suit is military property.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#101896: May 6th 2019 at 12:08:59 PM

One wonders if they're going try Gwen stancy again at some point

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#101897: May 6th 2019 at 12:10:58 PM

While I'm not a lawyer, and haven't watched the whole video, the point about saying the government couldn't compel people to reveal their secret identities ("make a certain form of speech") seems wrong. The government can compel people to testify in court, after all, only letting them out of it if certain protections (right not to self-incriminate, spousal privilege) prevent it.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#101898: May 6th 2019 at 12:11:57 PM

Peter has enough love interests that they probably don’t need to. They could pull a James Bond and just give him a different one in every movie, and still not run out for a while.

In fact, I’m a little surprised they bothered to make MJ an OC. I could’ve bought her as Carlie Cooper.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 6th 2019 at 12:12:28 PM

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#101899: May 6th 2019 at 12:17:35 PM

[up]Except everyone hates Carlie Cooper because she was the Creator's Pet of the guy that had Spidey sell his marriage to the devil.

Which still happened, still hasn’t been retconned, etc.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#101900: May 6th 2019 at 12:18:10 PM

Just watched the new Spidey trailer and....yeaaah, not really into it so far.

The talk about becoming Iron Man's successor, the multiverse, magic..... Is this really a SPIDER-MAN movie, we're talking about here?

I mean, I don't mind Pete participating in big crossovers, but his own solo movies oughta be a bit more down to earth and relatable, in my opinion.

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