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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#101776: May 5th 2019 at 12:16:28 AM

You know what? I would like to see Justin Hammer again. He wasn't a good villain, but such an entertaining one...

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#101777: May 5th 2019 at 12:18:38 AM

Killmonger clicked for me because I empathized with his pain of having lost his father then being left to suffer through no fault of his own.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#101778: May 5th 2019 at 12:22:28 AM

Hammer was an entertaining sub-villain, though my award for best "mundane criminal secondary antagonist in a superpowered world" goes to Sonny Burch.

His smarmy lightheartedness made for a perfect foil to Ghost's brand of antagonism, and without him and his squad of disposable goons and vehicles the finale wouldn't have been an exciting three-way battle amidst a car chase.

Seriously, AM&tW's whole final action sequence is up there as one of my favorites, and I could write whole paragraphs on how Burch and Starr play to each other's strengths and weaknesses to make them stronger than the sum of their parts.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on May 5th 2019 at 3:26:15 PM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#101779: May 5th 2019 at 12:27:28 AM

Oh man, Erik's trip to the Ancestral Plane (Ancestral Apartment?) is goddamn beautiful. Not a good dude, but you really get a sense of how much he got fucked over. This is another huge aspect about him that leaves an impression on T'Challa, what with that great scene of him grilling his dad for leaving him orphaned.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#101780: May 5th 2019 at 4:33:56 AM

Cross and Kaecilius I thought would've been excellent if they'd only had a few more scenes.

The scene where Kaecilius is trapped by Strange and he gives this tearful explanation of how the Ancient One is just using them is like my favourite scene in the movie.

Kaze ni Nare!
The12thDoctor Since: Feb, 2016
#101781: May 5th 2019 at 5:59:24 AM

That scene was thought-provoking. Something I didn't notice the first time was when Kaecillus claimed that those who died for his plan were nothing more than "tiny, momentary specks within an indifferent universe" - a phrase Doctor Strange used on the Ancient One when he didn't believe in her magic.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#101782: May 5th 2019 at 6:14:43 AM

Kaecilius was in many ways extremely similar to Ivan Vanko for me. As in, he had a tragic backstory, a (somewhat) understandable motive and was portrayed by a great actor.

Perfect potential for a great villain - if only they had developed him a bit more.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#101783: May 5th 2019 at 6:19:35 AM

Killmonger himself comes across as fairly disposable, but what makes him a great villain is that he has the moral high ground, at least partly. He succeeds in changing the hero's mind, which is a rarity in the MCU, never mind action films in general. Frankly, Klaue is my favorite villain of Black Panther if for no other reason than Andy Serkis's acting. (To borrow from Honest Trailers, "...a joyous performance of a man who doesn't have to wear a mocap suit.")

Edited by Fighteer on May 5th 2019 at 9:20:14 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#101784: May 5th 2019 at 6:38:20 AM

Oh yeah, Klaue was great, and sadly wasted way too fast.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#101785: May 5th 2019 at 7:29:14 AM

untill now I had no idea n Andy Serkis was in Black Panther because I'm so unfamiliar with his appearance outside greenscreened

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GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#101786: May 5th 2019 at 7:45:35 AM

With Antman I think the problem I had was entirely my fault. For not knowing anything about the character.

See, I thought I had figured out a twist the movie was going to pull, and was dissapointed when they DIDN'T do it.

Throughout the film, the whole point was that Scott was learning how to use the Antman suit, right? He was learning how to fight, how to grow and shrink at the right times. It was a BIG part of the film.

Yellow Jacket... he just kinda knew how to fight and use the suit instantly, even though Cross' Pym Particles had only just started working a few hours before the final confrontation. So, when I realized that the film hadn't set up Cross as a fighter AT ALL, I thought they were going to swerve us and have Pym's daughter turn evil. And SHE would become Yellow J Acket. Like, she would align with Cross, and we'd find out that the "Sexual tension" animosity between her and Scott was actually just genuine animosity. She was established as a fighter, established as someone who knew how the Pym particles worked, and had something of a rivalry with Scott.

I did not know that Wasp was a thing.

Edited by GNinja on May 5th 2019 at 2:45:58 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#101787: May 5th 2019 at 7:56:14 AM

in the comics and cartoons Wasp is Tinkerbell sized a lot of the time,something i wish they had carried over to the films

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#101788: May 5th 2019 at 8:02:36 AM

It raises the question of how everyone can hear her when she spends so much time so small

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#101789: May 5th 2019 at 8:05:08 AM

well you see at that size her voice is high pitched so they hear her...

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#101790: May 5th 2019 at 8:05:25 AM

Maybe if they were dogs

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#101791: May 5th 2019 at 8:15:36 AM

One has to remember that the Wasp was a last minute addition to Ant-man. Wright wanted to turn the franchise into another sausage fest.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#101792: May 5th 2019 at 8:24:23 AM

Yellow Jacket... he just kinda knew how to fight and use the suit instantly, even though Cross' Pym Particles had only just started working a few hours before the final confrontation. So, when I realized that the film hadn't set up Cross as a fighter AT ALL, I thought they were going to swerve us and have Pym's daughter turn evil. And SHE would become Yellow Jacket. Like, she would align with Cross, and we'd find out that the "Sexual tension" animosity between her and Scott was actually just genuine animosity. She was established as a fighter, established as someone who knew how the Pym particles worked, and had something of a rivalry with Scott.

... Thanks God they didn't go for that. Hope actually is a villain in the comic, so that wouldn't have been out of left field.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#101793: May 5th 2019 at 8:27:05 AM

Edgar Wright also didn’t let Whedon use Wasp for Avengers

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#101794: May 5th 2019 at 8:32:25 AM

[up][up] It still leaves me with my annoyance over them dedicating a large part of the film to a character training and then having the villain just suddenly be an expert for no reason.

And again, I don't know the comics, so what we got in the film was ALSO cliche as hell.

Edited by GNinja on May 5th 2019 at 3:33:24 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#101795: May 5th 2019 at 8:35:08 AM

Yellowjacket’s suit was more advanced which probably accounts for part of it

Edited by Bocaj on May 5th 2019 at 11:35:27 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#101796: May 5th 2019 at 9:27:50 AM

It's one of those marvellous scenes video which points out an interesting pattern in the MCU: Heroes winning by being ready to lose. Like, Thor going and being ready to let The Destroyer/Loki to take his revenge on him, Cap letting Bucky to hit him to pulp, Doctor Strange allowing Dormamu to get killed again and again and again….it never occurred to me, but the movies in which the solution is some big fight in which the hero simply overpowers the villain are actually pretty rarer than one might think.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#101797: May 5th 2019 at 9:31:16 AM

Does Ant-Man going for a sacrifice play count?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#101799: May 5th 2019 at 11:05:41 AM

I didn't get the impression that Cross was a skilled fighter. Just pissed off and equipped with a more advanced, more durable suit.

Not unlike Iron Man vs. Iron Monger. There's a reason a lot of people compare Stane and Cross.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#101800: May 5th 2019 at 11:08:05 AM

Well, Cross and Stane are basically the same character, minus Jeff Bridges' strong delivery and Stane's personal connection to the protagonist.

Cross does have a connection to Hank and Hope, but neither of them really give a shit about him and it doesn't really go anywhere.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 5th 2019 at 11:09:07 AM


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