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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#101576: Apr 28th 2019 at 10:47:53 PM

[up] To rephrase this: The need to depower him is not a common talking point while depowering Carol for some reason is.

And I don't think that they should if for no other reason than her power level allowing her such a huge action radius.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#101577: Apr 29th 2019 at 12:10:20 AM

I agree that Carol shouldn't be depowered. She can have battles and adventures on a scale that none of the other characters can (maybe Quill if he could tap into his Celestial side, and maybe Dr. Strange), and that provides a great opportunity for filmmakers to experiment with setpieces and stories bigger in scope and scale than any other in the MCU.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#101578: Apr 29th 2019 at 2:45:23 AM

As someone who writes stories involving characters with god-like powers, I would like to point out, being really powerful isn't that much of a Story-Breaker Power. Quite often in fact, in my experience, the powers that actually are story breaking are the subtle ones. A Flying Brick like Carol, all you need to give them a challenge is either create opponents that are just as strong or stronger, or create scenarios they cannot solve just by punching it or flying through it. It's really not that hard, especially in a setting like the MCU where super-powerful characters are commonplace anyway. Meanwhile, Telepathy can single-handledly skip the entire plot of a murder mystery or spy story, or, if it can be used offensively like with Professor X, would actually allow to KO a character like Goku without even the need for a fight.

To illustrate my point, I do think Superman is actually more potentially OP than Carol; not because he is stronger or faster (I am unsure of who is the strongest between the two), but because Supe has his Super-Senses that effectively allow him to detect something happening on the other side of the planet and immediately react. Carol doesn't have this edge; she still need to be contacted when people need her help, she still needs to find the bad guy, and she still need to figure out what they are planning. So really, there is much more room for plots with her without depowering her.

Edited by Theokal3 on Apr 29th 2019 at 11:46:20 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#101579: Apr 29th 2019 at 3:09:10 AM

True. Telepathy is pretty much a story breaker. Precogs too, unless there are some serious limitation on their abilities (of the "cassandra curse variety"). Being able to manipulate reality - why the hell doesn't this person change it however it wants? And then there is "being fast" which makes ANY kind of action scene challenging unless you have a set of limitations like Yoyo has (hence her being a better character than either version of quicksilver or Flash imho...like, the only reason why other villains even have a chance against Flash is because he randomly just pauses before launching his attacks).

Being able to jump through space and shooting lasers out of your arm - not really much of a problem. In fact, it SOLVES a lot of problems because you don't have to worry how you should get a character from a to b or about someone running out of bullets. In a way Carol is just Ironman with more firepower and a wider range.

Edited by Swanpride on Apr 29th 2019 at 3:14:23 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#101580: Apr 29th 2019 at 3:13:35 AM

> Carol vs Hela. Who wins?

Carol obviously

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windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#101581: Apr 29th 2019 at 4:11:46 AM

For all the jokes people make about Supes, nobody has ever suggested to make him less powerful.

They’ve done more than suggesting it. They’ve actually done it.

To rephrase this: The need to depower him is not a common talking point while depowering Carol for some reason is.
Yes it is. There have been arguments to make Superman weaker for as long as the Internet has been around. I saw plenty of them in the lead up to Man of Steel’s release.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#101582: Apr 29th 2019 at 4:14:08 AM

[up] I didn't. The only thing which is often discussed is the need to define Superman's power better (ie how fast he can be somewhere or how much he is able to hear), not that someone should come and steal his powers.

And please don't act as if the discussions about Captain Marvel's power level don't have clear sexist undertones. I mean, the notion comes from the same people who complain about Nick Fury washing dishes and there being a cat in her movie.

Edited by Swanpride on Apr 29th 2019 at 4:15:28 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#101583: Apr 29th 2019 at 4:20:44 AM

. I mean, the notion comes from the same people who complain about Nick Fury washing dishes

Is a man doing housework supposed to be oppressive now? This doesn't really surprise me that much I guess, but it's still a bizarre thing to complain about.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#101584: Apr 29th 2019 at 4:43:10 AM

And please don't act as if the discussions about Captain Marvel's power level don't have clear sexist undertones.

I'm not. I'm just pointing out that arguments for making Superman weaker exist. They just exist for different reasons.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#101585: Apr 29th 2019 at 5:28:15 AM

[up][up] Honestly, I found the complain about the cat even odder.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#101586: Apr 29th 2019 at 6:26:14 AM

I wonder if the plan for Guardians 1 was to permanently kill Groot but for a marketing guy going "Hold on! Groot could sell really well in a different form" hence why he's had so little involvement,they never had any plans for him beyond his sacrifice

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#101587: Apr 29th 2019 at 6:29:47 AM

They don't write the scripts all at once, you know. And Groot has a really important role in GotG 2, so it's hard to credit that kind of speculation.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#101588: Apr 29th 2019 at 6:33:02 AM

Groot coming back as a twig from a seemingly fatal circumstance comes right from the comics

Same visual of him being a tiny twig Groot in a pot

It’s actually how he started the dna Gotg comic because he had either been set on fire to knock down a building or had been blown up by Warlock!Ultron, I don’t recall, in the event that led to the guardians getting a book

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#101589: Apr 29th 2019 at 6:36:02 AM

[up][up][up] Doubtful. If for no other reason that that Disney was really surprised about the popularity of baby Groot. It took months until they had merch in the shops. They were better prepared for gotG Vol 2

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#101590: Apr 29th 2019 at 9:50:00 AM

Is a man doing housework supposed to be oppressive now? This doesn't really surprise me that much I guess, but it's still a bizarre thing to complain about.
I feel like it says so very much about the person making the complaint. Maybe they should consider that the reason women don't like them is because they have no idea how to act like a polite and considerate human being instead of a bridge troll...

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#101591: Apr 29th 2019 at 9:52:08 AM

Even bridge trolls have more manners usually,providing you pay their toll..

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#101592: Apr 29th 2019 at 10:16:24 AM

And sometimes bridge trolls are secretly George Lucas

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#101593: Apr 29th 2019 at 10:24:59 AM

People talk about depowering Superman all the time. In the 70's, there was a weird storyline involving some sort of sand monster that was supposed to leave him only a fraction of his powers. Then when the DC Universe got rebooted in the 80's, Superman was quite explicitly rebooted to be far less powerful than he had been before. Comics since then tend to be wildly inconsistent about just how powerful he is.

As for Carol in the MCU, I agree that she doesn't need to be depowered to make the stories more interesting; just introduce ultra-powerful villains to go up against her. However, there is one very solid argument for depowering her: to create a comics-accurate version of Rogue.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#101594: Apr 29th 2019 at 10:43:17 AM

[up]You do realize Rogue has long lost her Ms Marvel powers in the comic and this has only been a small era of the X-Men, right? Personally I mostly got into the franchise with X-Men Evolution, so I wasn't even aware Rogue had flight and super-strength at some point until much later. Just saying, the "comic-accurate" phrase here kinda seems subjective to me.

Edited by Theokal3 on Apr 29th 2019 at 7:43:44 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#101595: Apr 29th 2019 at 11:06:30 AM

Plus, there aren't even X-MEN in the MCU yet, never mind Rogue.

Okay, let's assume that they do introduce the X-men (I still would prefer them in an alternate universe but whatever), and down the line when Captain Marvel had at least her trilogy and it feels like it is time to wrap up her story and they do it by creating a situation in which Rogue sucks away her power, which leads to Carol retiring from being a Superhero - fine. There are worst ways to retire a hero. But we aren't there yet. We need some time to experience her enjoying her powers so when she leaves the stage eventually, it feels earned.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#101596: Apr 29th 2019 at 11:45:59 AM

Speaking of which, when Marvel Studios finally start using the X-Men and Fantastic Four in their movies, I wonder how they'll make them distinct from the previous cinematic incarnations.

Actual costumes for the X-Men would be a nice start...

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#101597: Apr 29th 2019 at 11:48:55 AM

I was reasonably happy with the original three X-Men films. I didn't really get into any of the others, but I also don't quite get why they keep feeling the need to reboot them. I guess the MCU has spoiled me by giving me franchises with serious and persistent continuity.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#101598: Apr 29th 2019 at 11:54:49 AM

re Xmen reboots

Well if it first you don't succeed,try and try again.Naturally this approach has made people less receptive to the xmen as a whole,I figure if they ever do introduce Xmen to the MCU there will be a slow approach at first,nothing major at first,they just need to win people over and convince them it's not going to be like Fox's xmen

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#101599: Apr 29th 2019 at 11:55:38 AM

The cynical answer is that there are copyright laws saying they need to publish a product within X years or somesuch, or else the rights are reverted.

> Carol vs Hela. Who wins?

Carol obviously

I mean, Hela's powered by Asgard, and there's no more Asgard. But even with Asgard, I'd say Carol.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#101600: Apr 29th 2019 at 11:56:09 AM

My preferred version of Rogue doesn't have Carol's powers. My preferred version just has her own power of being able to absorb the strength and powers of a person by touching them, and I hope that's the version the MCU uses.


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