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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
What? Superman gets hit with Kryptonite all the time; it's the only way to physically challenge him short of bringing out Darkseid.
The comparison is fair: Carol can't blast or punch her way through everything without getting boring. But even her own first film wasn't about blasting everything as a solution. Blasting certainly solved one problem, but only temporarily. If anything, there should be a lesson about how power alone isn't enough. You need discretion, compassion, the ability to listen and change your mind. Otherwise, you're a menace.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"It's damned impressive to be more powerful than Thor, who for years was one of the biggest hitters alongside Hulk in the Avengers.
I'd say more about why I think that way, but I just remembered this isn't the spoiler thread.
Still being the second most powerful being in a Super hero team isn't anything to laugh about.
One Strip! One Strip!I agree. We need fewer works where the solution is “here’s the bad guy, punch them out” and more works that encourage us to stop, think, and consider that maybe we’re not on the right side. That maybe the people we think of as enemies really aren’t, and maybe the people we think of as friends and allies are behaving wrongly. There’s far too little of that.
That’s why I like Winter Soldier, where Cap decides that SHIELD’s actions are wrong and that he doesn’t want to be part of them even before he knows they’ve been infiltrated. That’s why I like Captain Marvel.
Edited by Galadriel on Apr 28th 2019 at 6:50:15 AM
or they could depower Carol so she's not so op
That'd be stupid; first, it's regression, and nobody ever likes that; I am pretty sure nobody would have wanted Iron Man to give up all the upgrade in his armor and return to his original bulky armor, to illustrate my point. Second, that's a problem similar to the one often made with Superman games; part of Carol's appeal is that she is so powerful. If you depower/nerf her, you lose that appeal. It's like in Luke Cage when they suddenly introduced the Judas Bullet; the entire series was around a guy who is bulletproof, so if you create bullets that can harm him, what is the point of his power at all? There's a reason the first thing season 2 did was reveal he was now immune to Judas Bullets as well.
Also come on guys, it's not like that's the first time Marvel did an OP character. Thor and Hulk both already were pretty damn powerful compared to the opponent they faced.
I hate the talk about depowering Carol simply because nobody ever talks about depowering Superman. Or Thor for that matter. (instead they spend a lot of time claiming that Thor is more powerful than her which...yeah, no).
My point exactly.
Edited by Theokal3 on Apr 28th 2019 at 1:15:07 PM
I already pointed out that Supes gets depowered all the damn time so that badguys can be a challenge to him. Thor has gotten depowered several times; Hulk keeps getting depowered, or turned against the Avengers, or going into funks and refusing to fight.
Every single writer in a franchise like this runs into the same problem: how do you keep the god tier heroes from solving the plot immediately, outclassing and eclipsing the less powerful heroes, or both? The choices are, in no particular order:
- Worf them by having the villain beat them up first to show how strong they are.
- Less annoyingly, have them tank the villain's most powerful attacks, which gives the other heroes a chance to do the critical things that save the day.
- Depower them temporarily with phlebotinum or Kryptonite.
- Make them sick or in grief or in other ways unable to fight at their full potential.
- Put them on a bus or give them "more urgent problems" to deal with, so the rest of the team has to fight without them.
Without spoilers, I will say that Endgame uses a few of these tricks, just like every other ensemble superhero film. It's not automatically lazy writing, and it makes sense in context, but I was unavoidably aware that it was being done.
Edited by Fighteer on Apr 28th 2019 at 7:24:06 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I already pointed out that Supes gets depowered all the damn time so that badguys can be a challenge to him. Thor has gotten depowered several times; Hulk keeps getting depowered, or turned against the Avengers, or going into funks and refusing to come out.
Yes. Temporarily each time, whereas I think some people are suggesting permanently depowering/weakening Carol. It's also usually considered not a very good plot device, or at least one that should be used sporadically. Just because it has been done before and a lot doesn't mean it should be used again.
Well, yeah. There are permanent and temporary solutions. Most of the depowering that occurs for god-tier heroes is of the temporary kind, and they get fixed up in time to give the villain the climactic beatdown. That said, Captain Marvel herself has gone through quite a few arcs of this sort in the comics, both of the temporary and permanent kind, so it's not exactly a stretch for her film appearances to use similar tricks.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Well, the solution to god-like heroes is to give them challenges that cannot be solved that easily with their superpowers.
Brainiac was created to give Superman a foe that can go toe-to-toe with him on physical level. While Lex Luthor brings in the brains of outwitting the Man of Steel (as well as getting a suit of armor to go toe-to-toe with Superman).
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I absolutely agree. Nerfing your "most powerful Avenger" would be a serious narrative mistake.
There has to be some limit, although I have to say that what Carol is already capable of in the MCU approaches the brokenly OP anyway.
Edited by Fighteer on Apr 28th 2019 at 7:43:58 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Comics aside, the MCU has so far managed to remain much more grounded, metaphorically speaking, than Dragonball. I'm not really concerned about it going that route, partly because of the constraints of live-action, and partly because Marvel and Kevin Feige are well aware of the risks of constant escalation.
I fully expect the first few Phase 4 films to be lower-stakes affairs, to give audiences an emotional break after Endgame.
Edited by Fighteer on Apr 28th 2019 at 7:48:00 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

In the Fantastic Four, all they need to do to make them suitably distinct is actually make it a good movie. That would be a heck of a novelty.
Also, a comics accurate Dr. Doom would go a long way towards giving it its own tone, since Doom's sheer personality would contribute a lot to that.
But even if they do it without Doom, they should focus on the exploration aspect and less on the superhero aspect. Imo, a good Fantastic Four movie should look like a good Lost In Space movie (ignoring for the moment that the actual Lost In Space movie was shit).
Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 28th 2019 at 3:25:17 AM