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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#101076: Apr 22nd 2019 at 7:44:15 PM

The place collapses not much longer afterwards as well. So they left them there and they're dead and crushed into mush.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#101077: Apr 22nd 2019 at 7:44:46 PM

Poor guy becomes a total chump. Couldn’t take down Cap or Widow.
Cap yes, but he did capture Black Widow. The only reason she doesn't die is because he wanted someone to monologue to and didn't care about killing her.

Those aren't offscreen. Offscreen is exposition or plausible chance of no victim.
That's...not what off-screen means. Off-screen means "yes, they died, but we didn't see it." If there was a plausible chance of no victim, hell, that doesn't mean off-screen, it means no kills.

For instance: everyone in the building died when it collapsed. Fury said it. But we don't see them die, therefore they die off-screen.

Edited by alliterator on Apr 22nd 2019 at 7:46:21 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#101078: Apr 22nd 2019 at 7:45:11 PM

By the way, here is Ultron's first scene

The first scene where Ultron blasts Rhodey straight in the chest and he suffers no injury aside from knockback. It is not a good idea to establish from the start that your supervillain has no lethal weapons.

Saying he spared Cho there makes him scary doesn't hold up when later on Ultron does shoot her at point-blank and she still doesn't die.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Apr 22nd 2019 at 7:45:30 AM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#101079: Apr 22nd 2019 at 7:48:19 PM

The first scene where Ultron blasts Rhodey straight in the chest and he suffers no injury aside from knockback.
Again: Ultron is in a broken and janky Iron Man suit. Odds are, the repulsors don't even work that well. And still Rhodey is out for the rest of the fight.

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#101080: Apr 22nd 2019 at 7:48:39 PM

Cap not getting taken down is perfect as a video I saw nicely described how Winter Soldier made Steves feats more superhuman without overpowering. Much like him holding back one Thanos hand. Before Thanos gets bored and just hits him with the other.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#101081: Apr 22nd 2019 at 7:56:15 PM

Then they could've made the repulsors still work fine because it's fiction and they can change things in it.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Apr 22nd 2019 at 7:57:34 AM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#101082: Apr 22nd 2019 at 7:59:28 PM

Ultron was disappointingly nonthreatening to me, but I will defend to the death the decision to make him an emotional child convinced he's a flawless AI, rather than just another boring "beep boop, exterminate" killer robot.

As was mentioned, that scene where he loses his temper and casually mutilates Klaue, then backpedals like it's not a big deal is really effective.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#101083: Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:02:52 PM

Then they could've made the repulsors still work fine because it's fiction and they can change things in it.
Yes, it's fiction. And they deliberately made it so it didn't kill Rhodey in that scene, because they still wanted to use Rhodey. I'm not sure what you are arguing about — I gave a pretty logical Watsonian reason why Rhodey would be relatively fine from a repulsor blast to the chest and your response was, "No, they should have killed him." Uh, I guess my response is...no, they shouldn't have?

Hey, you know who Ultron did kill? Quicksilver. Which is one more Avenger than Loki killed (sorry, Coulson).

Edited by alliterator on Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:03:50 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#101084: Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:03:10 PM

[up][up]Heck, even in the comics he was hardly a generic killer robot. He had all sorts of issues, particularly Daddy Issues. Comes with being a robot whose programming is based on Hank Pym's brain patterns — comics Hank Pym is not a stable man. Comics Ultron's desire to Kill All Humans? That's all Hank — he's got a lot of repressed misanthropy.

Edited by M84 on Apr 22nd 2019 at 11:05:21 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#101085: Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:05:13 PM

Thanos goes back in time to steer Steve wrong.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#101086: Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:06:40 PM

This is the most evil thing he has ever done

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#101087: Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:10:49 PM

I didn't say they should've killed Rhodey.note  Ultron could've killed someone else, Hill or a random party guest, or at least wounded one of them enough that their life was in emergency. Something to show he can draw blood.

Hey, you know who Ultron did kill? Quicksilver.

Which doesn't matter because it's so far to the end of the film that Ultron has already lost and didn't have any scariness to him for the past 2 hours. Having him finally kill someone (by accident, he wasn't even aiming for Pietro) doesn't retroactively apply cred to all his prior scenes.

[up][up]So Thanos is to blame for Ultimate Captain America? That monster!

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:16:30 AM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#101088: Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:11:26 PM

[up][up][up][up]Right.

I remember back closer to the movie's release, there were complaints that he was too human and emotional for a robot villain.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Apr 22nd 2019 at 11:11:40 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#101089: Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:20:48 PM

Ultron could've killed someone else, Hill or a random party guest, or at least wounded one of them enough that their life was in emergency. Something to show he can draw blood.
Just showing up and attacking wasn't enough? I still find it disingenuous to say that a villain has to kill someone in order for them to be scary. Again: I didn't find Loki scary because he killed people, I found him scary because of his convictions.

Also, I don't want Hill to die either. In fact, there was nobody right then in that room that I wanted to die. The only possible Red Shirt that was there was Dr. Cho and I wouldn't have wanted to see her die either. Just because there are Red Shirts doesn't mean you have to kill them to prove a villain is dangerous.

Which doesn't matter because it's so far to the end of the film that Ultron has already lost and didn't have any scariness to him for the past 2 hours.
I disagree; again, the more his plans fail, the more unhinged he gets and the more dangerous he gets.

Edited by alliterator on Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:21:20 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#101090: Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:22:52 PM

By that he's forced to pilot a jet cause he can barely move under his own power.

Dangerous my ass.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#101091: Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:24:04 PM

He pilots the jet because he wants one of his bodies to escape the destruction, not because he can't move. He can clearly move.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#101092: Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:28:06 PM

Just showing up and attacking wasn't enough?

Correct. Final answer.

Again: I didn't find Loki scary because he killed people, I found him scary because of his convictions.

A supervillain can have all the motive but if they can't make me worry about the hero's life it amounts to little. Plenty of motiveless antagonists like the Terminator or the Winter Soldier are tremendously terrifying.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:28:16 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#101093: Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:32:20 PM

Ultron does destroy an entire city

That’s an accomplishment

Edited by Bocaj on Apr 22nd 2019 at 11:34:31 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#101094: Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:34:22 PM

A supervillain can have all the motive but if they can't make me worry about the hero's life it amounts to little.
Then none of the MCU's villains should be scary, because none of them made me worry about the heroes. (No, not even Thanos. Every character he snapped is going to come back to life and either Cap or Tony will sacrifice their lives to bring them back, but Thanos won't kill them. No spoilers, pure speculation.)

Again: scariness is not dependent on "How many and who they kill."

Plenty of motiveless antagonists like the Terminator or the Winter Soldier are tremendously terrifying.
The Winter Soldier was never going to kill Cap, Nat, or Sam. Hell, I never believed he was going to kill Fury either. (Also, neither the Terminator nor the Winter Soldier are "motiveless." Both have motives.)

Edited by alliterator on Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:37:34 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#101095: Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:34:35 PM

Its weird, he just does not come across as a badass.

He's too weak.

Edited by slimcoder on Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:34:54 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#101096: Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:38:42 PM

Movies are like magic tricks. I know how they're going to end but I want to be fooled into believing something impossible might happen. Make me worry the assistant getting sawn in half really is in halves before you put them back together.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#101097: Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:40:27 PM

I know how they're going to end but I want to be fooled into believing something impossible might happen.
I guess that's the difference between you and me: I know nobody is going to die, but I enjoy the ride anyway. Because, well, it's a fun ride.

(The fun in action movies isn't seeing who is going to live or die, it's watching the intricate and elaborate action sequences; the fun in horror movies isn't knowing who is going to die — probably everyone except for the last girl — it's in seeing the unfolding horror and increasing tension and terror. The fun in comedic movies is...well, that one is more self explanatory.)

Edited by alliterator on Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:42:23 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#101098: Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:41:19 PM

I feel like we’re careening towards the point of agree to disagree

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#101099: Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:43:28 PM

Thanos, say what you will about the ins and outs of his motives and logic (because hoo BOY are there things to say about that), was genuinely horrifying to me, at least in theaters.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#101100: Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:44:08 PM

I feel like we passed that point long ago, with one of the earlier iterations of this same conversation. Let's drop it before it gets heated and someone says something they'll regret.

Let's talk about either Endgame or Far From Home, there's no shortage of topics to theorize about with either. Or maybe Eternals, Dr. Strange 2, Black Widow, or Guardians of the Galaxy 3.


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