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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#100726: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:10:21 AM

He only has bonafide Super-Strength in the Ultimates comics verse.

In Marvel comics and the MCU he "only" has peak baseline human physical abilities.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#100727: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:10:26 AM

Spider-Man overpowered the Winter Soldier, who strength-wise is even with Cap. It’s just that Steve outmaneuvered a kid tactically.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#100728: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:10:59 AM

Spider-Man OTOH has bonafide Super-Strength.

Edited by M84 on Apr 18th 2019 at 12:11:13 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#100729: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:11:35 AM

Peak human in comics and apparently in the MCU is very different from what peak human actually is in real life.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#100730: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:12:03 AM

To be fair, Captain America's strength is very inconsistent. (Both in the movies, animated series and in the comics)

In a comic book, Steve can be a little stronger than Daredevil and in the next is class 100.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Apr 17th 2019 at 9:14:08 AM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#100731: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:12:17 AM

[nja]

Edited by windleopard on Apr 17th 2019 at 9:12:39 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#100732: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:14:17 AM

Cap in the movies isn’t peak human, he’s explicitly superhuman. Peak human is more Black Widow and Hawkeye.

Comics Cap is peak human, but like Batman gets Charles Atlas Superpower all over the place.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 17th 2019 at 9:14:50 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#100733: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:14:46 AM

Steve's actual level of strength does tend to be rather inconsistent. However, it's generally the case that he's not as strong as a superhuman like Peter Parker.

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#100734: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:15:24 AM

Spidey is shown to be a practical newborn at this hero business.

The main reason why he kicked ass was more due to people’s shock at fighting an unknown opponent with more actual superhuman abilities combined with acrobatics.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#100735: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:16:56 AM

In the MCU, Captain America has what I like to refer to as "low-level super strength." As in he's stronger than a regular human being, but still less strong than a full blown superhuman. So yes, Spider-Man (having the proportional strength of a spider) is definitely strong than Captain America.

The difference is, of course, that Cap knows a lot more about tactics, so he doesn't even let Spider-Man come close to him.

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#100736: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:17:00 AM

The most inconsistent scene is when Steve manage to stop Thanos's hand.

I imagine that at the end of Avengers 4, Steve will be unreachable for Peter.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Apr 17th 2019 at 9:19:04 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#100737: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:17:42 AM

Keep in mind that Loki can physically manhandle Steve with ease. That's the difference between a peak or slightly super human like Steve and a Physical God Frost Giant like Loki.

Edited by M84 on Apr 18th 2019 at 12:20:09 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#100738: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:18:58 AM

[up][up] Adrenaline is a hell of a drug. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#100739: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:19:35 AM

The most inconsistent scene is when Steve manage to stop Thanos's hand.
How strong is Thanos? Sure, he's big, but tactically, he wasn't actually doing anything to Steve except pushing downward and Steve was pushing upward — and Steve had leverage, too, probably. So I think that was less about strength and more about how cool it looked.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#100740: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:20:15 AM

It's similar to a scene in Hulk Vs. Thor, when Loki abducts Bruce Banner and easily slaps him around a room in a bid to make him Hulk Out. Loki remarks that he had forgotten about the frailty of mortals.

Edited by M84 on Apr 18th 2019 at 12:22:45 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#100741: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:22:32 AM

As I recall that Captain America Thanos scene, Thanos seems more confused than actually struggling.

The whole thing doesn't last long and Thanos effortlessly slaps him aside once he actually tries.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#100742: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:23:26 AM

[up][up][up]Thanos can trade blows with Hulk and win. And he was not using the Power Stone at the time.

Edited by M84 on Apr 18th 2019 at 12:23:55 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#100743: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:24:39 AM

Speaking of Loki, how strong is he supposed to be for the Asgardian standards?

Opinions vary between "Normal fish" and "he is strong, but not as strong as his brother".

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#100744: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:26:23 AM

He's as strong as the average Asgardian, who are all on a level far above humans.

Thor otoh is strong even by Asgardian standards.

Disgusted, but not surprised
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#100745: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:28:23 AM

I remember that asgardian zombies could be killed by common bullets.

While Loki survived a missile launched by Iron Man.

Two Asgardians appeared in the series, one called Eliott Randolph and another called Lorelei.

The first was considered standard, but he could bend a knife with his hands.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Apr 17th 2019 at 9:31:03 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#100746: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:28:32 AM

He was strong enough to toss Captain America around, though that was before Cap received a big boost in strength in TWS.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#100747: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:33:15 AM

Keep in mind the scene where Cap holds off Thanos is in slow motion, so it probably lasted about three or four seconds.

Impressive, but it hardly puts Cap in Thanos' league.

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#100748: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:36:53 AM

[up][up]In fact, my question was for Asgardian standards.

Being stronger than the Captain does not answer my question.

Loki is basically is a Squishy Wizard, but a squishy with super strength.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Apr 17th 2019 at 9:39:26 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#100749: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:40:44 AM

Reminder that "X has won a fight against Y" does not mean "X would always win every single fight, every possible fight, that could ever occur against Y". A 1:0 W/L record is not the end-all be-all ultimate feat-scaling proof.

This is true for both Captain America beating Spider-Man and Spider-Man beating Bucky.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#100750: Apr 17th 2019 at 9:42:08 AM

Spiderman is clearly stronger than Cap. But Steve is better trained and therefore able to use his strength against him, hence he would have currently won in a fight against him if he goes after him unrestrained. Tony says as much, and he is right.

The reason why Steve was able to hold of Thanos was most likely a mixture of adrenaline, will-power and Thanos just being too surprised to immediately fight back with his full power. Once he does, Steve doesn't have a chance.


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