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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#100201: Apr 9th 2019 at 5:20:42 AM

[up][up][up]Yeah, again, I feel sorry for whoever succeeds Hugh Jackman.

I admit, while I do like when they use these media to criticize prejudices, comparing to gay people and black is kinda inappropriate on occasion, given gay and black people do not have the potential to be a Person of Mass Destruction. I am for tolerance regardless of the context but it's a bit harder to defend the ones who are being prejudiced against when they are actually dangerous.

Edited by Theokal3 on Apr 9th 2019 at 2:21:23 PM

HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
#100202: Apr 9th 2019 at 5:40:58 AM

The difficulty of using super-people as a metaphor for any kind of real life discrimination has been gone over many times, with that being the most obvious problem.

I quite like the idea of throwing the occasional FF character into other movies for a while before doing their own one. Probably easier than it would be with X-Men.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#100203: Apr 9th 2019 at 5:41:05 AM

Well, that was always the problem with the notion. Which maybe makes the Skrulls a better parallel.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#100204: Apr 9th 2019 at 5:51:00 AM

"Have you tried not being a mutant?"

"I don't know, Mom, have you tried not being such a hamfisted social metaphor?"

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#100205: Apr 9th 2019 at 5:58:56 AM

lol...though to the credit of X-2, it also has my favourite moment in the whole X-men movie verse. It's when Nightcrawler asks Mystique why she doesn't simply blend end and she says that she doesn't do it because she shouldn't have to. Ironically that line made me fell in love with the character and you can imagine that I really didn't like the more recent portrayals of her.

Still, Cloak and Dagger has way more to say about the plight of minorities and systemic racism than X-men ever did.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#100206: Apr 9th 2019 at 6:53:53 AM

[up]The most recent portrayal of her? Do you mean in the First Class/Days of Future Past/Apocalypse continuity?

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#100207: Apr 9th 2019 at 7:13:47 AM

[up] Yep...not that I minded First Class, but after that, it has really gotten of the rail. I liked the barely supressed anger version of her way more.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#100208: Apr 9th 2019 at 8:48:33 AM

Mystique has went downhill since Jennifer Lawrence took the role anyway.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#100209: Apr 9th 2019 at 8:51:14 AM

Not like there was much to her in the first place.

Hell, the Lawrence version was written as a more independent character than she was in the early movies.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#100210: Apr 9th 2019 at 8:53:17 AM

That's the amazing thing.

Mystique was originally just The Dragon to Magneto.

When they actually start giving her stuff she became a total Spotlight Stealing Squad.

Makes you miss her original simpleness.

Edited by slimcoder on Apr 9th 2019 at 8:53:57 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#100211: Apr 9th 2019 at 9:19:30 AM

Sometimes less is just more. Especially when "more" ruins the main point of the character. In this case constantly looking like a human even though she shouldn't be. "Mutant and proud", remember?

Edited by Swanpride on Apr 9th 2019 at 9:20:11 AM

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#100212: Apr 9th 2019 at 9:20:56 AM

Funny that she didn't take off with her own series. You could have her portrayed by almost any actress or even actor and have it still make sense. No binding contract requiring 5-8 years of your life for 8 films necessary.

She canbe involved in big bad guy movements while not being so overpowered that competent use of her abilities defuses most situations she's in (Quicksilver), or makes the rest of her allies look like chumps (Superman), nor does she require a cosmic/alien opponent to be threatened (Captain Marvel). She's not dependent on massive amounts of CGI for her power to be portrayed effectively either (Hulk).

Edited by Soble on Apr 9th 2019 at 6:03:04 AM

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#100213: Apr 9th 2019 at 9:30:43 AM

Oh, that would be hilarious. Have her in practically every film in a minor role, played by a different actor/actress every time.

"We sent Mystique in to steal the info."
[scene of an overweight security guard grabbing files, then his eyes turn yellow]

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#100214: Apr 9th 2019 at 10:10:36 AM

Mystique can be or played by anyone.

Just Makima.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#100215: Apr 9th 2019 at 10:11:29 AM

I liked that the crux of the plot in days of future past came down to whether she’d go for magneto’s attempts to control her or Charles’ and reasonably she went ‘actually screw both of you’

I haven’t seen Apocalypse because I saw the Quicksilver scene on You Tube and that seemed to be the only scene I’d regret missing but it’s comical to me to describe her as a spotlight stealing squad when days of future past was rewritten to star Wolverine

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#100216: Apr 9th 2019 at 10:36:06 AM

Difference is Wolverine didn't steal that much spotlight. He was even knocked out of the climax in Days.

Mystique on the otherhand got some weird-ass shilling as a Mutant icon & new team leader of the X-Men.

And she's gonna be important in Dark Phoenix too.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#100217: Apr 9th 2019 at 10:38:10 AM

Mystique is cooler then Wolverine solely because of the body paint,or so I've been told

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#100218: Apr 9th 2019 at 10:38:19 AM

Yeaaaaah, I have to disagree. I actually like Mystique getting a backstory and being developped instead of being The Dragon to Magneto and never talking. I'll agree she became a Spotlight-Stealing Squad, but it wasn't really a problem to me until Apocalypse.

Overall, though, I think that's just a general problem with the X-Men movies; they always chose to focus on only a small number of characters rather than on the group as a whole. I'd say Avengers has the advantage of giving each character a movie first, but Guardians of the Galaxy didn't have that and still managed to avoid that problem.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#100219: Apr 9th 2019 at 10:38:21 AM

It's actually kind of hilarious to see how much shilling and Adaptational Heroism Mystique gets in the movies, considering her comics incarnation is one of the most treacherous and scheming individuals in the Marvel Verse.

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#100220: Apr 9th 2019 at 10:42:36 AM

[up][up] Nothing against her getting more character for herself.

Just didn't like the actual character coming out of it. She ain't supposed to be a hero.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer
#100221: Apr 9th 2019 at 10:46:29 AM

Neither are the Skrulls.

Edited by RAlexa21th on Apr 9th 2019 at 10:46:37 AM

Continue writing our story of peace.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#100222: Apr 9th 2019 at 10:49:46 AM

Wolverine always stole the spotlight from anyone else, no matter how short his appearance in a movie was. Hence I always disliked the argument that Mystique should have stayed a background character. When I say that I liked her better when she was a "lesser" character, what I mean is that they made her more boring the more they "developed" her. Because Singer is sh... with female characters.

The ideas for Mystique in First Class were some of the best of the movie. But it was idiotic to turn her into a heroine. An Anti-heroine, yeah, that could have worked, but not an outright heroine. And she should have been blue more often.

[up] Careful, Spoiler tags. Anyway The Skrulls are getting more interesting if they aren't one-note evil. Mystique is less interesting when she is one-note heroic instead of being "Mutant and proud".

Edited by Swanpride on Apr 9th 2019 at 10:51:21 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#100223: Apr 9th 2019 at 10:52:28 AM

> And she should have been blue more often.

They probably couldn't afford to have her constantly all blue,that stuff costs you know,besides she's supposed to be in disguise so not being in her true form that often makes sense

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#100224: Apr 9th 2019 at 10:55:30 AM

[up][up][up]It's at least easier to do that with the Skrulls since they are an entire race. They're not a monolith, not even in the comics. And the creators of the movie have pointed out that there are evil Skrulls out there who take full advantage of their powers.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#100225: Apr 9th 2019 at 10:55:43 AM

I'll admit Mystique should have probably stuck to Anti-heroine. I am fine with Adaptational Heroism is fine, but seeing her become basically a heroic icon for the world is kinda hilarious when you know how evil and treacherous her comic book self is.

To be fair, though, she is far from the worst case of In Name Only in these movies.


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