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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#100051: Apr 8th 2019 at 1:28:56 AM

It's also ignoring that one of Carol Danvers' closest friends and comrades in the MCU is a man. And not just any man, but Samuel L. Jackson...I mean, Nick Fury.

Actually, Carol gets along with most men in the movie. The only ones she doesn't get along with are a few sexists and the antagonists.

This isn't exactly a movie adaptation of Amazons Attack from the Amazons' pov.

Edited by M84 on Apr 8th 2019 at 4:30:36 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#100052: Apr 8th 2019 at 1:33:16 AM

Especially in the 1980s (remember, the movie is set in the 1990s, but Carol vanished in the 1990s) military. There was even this guy ranting about the portrayal of the role of the female pilots being "unrealistic", even though all the various sexism portrayed is historical correct.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#100053: Apr 8th 2019 at 1:35:33 AM

I’ll tell ya what’s wrong...... eating mayonnaise straight from the jar....... cause I just ate mayonnaise straight from the jar.

How’s that for a non-sequitur?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#100054: Apr 8th 2019 at 1:46:31 AM

[up][up][up]Ah, but you see, Fury is black so it doesn't count,apparently. No seriously, the same guy argued to me the movie was racist against white males because, and I quote, "aside from Coulson all white males in this movie are evil or stupid." I am still baffled by that level of hypocrisy.

[up][up]The guy whose avatar is a redhead guy with a goatee, right? Yeah, I was unfortunate enough to see his video earlier on. Seeing Call of Dustin pointing out what I had already been thinking was cathartic.

Edited by Theokal3 on Apr 8th 2019 at 10:47:38 AM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#100055: Apr 8th 2019 at 1:54:54 AM

Any time a story with a woman in the lead addresses misogyny, it will be attacked as anti-male regardless of how many sympathetic or heroic male characters are present in the story. Jessica Jones, Agent Carter and Wonder Woman received similar accusations of being anti-male.

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#100056: Apr 8th 2019 at 1:55:04 AM

I still sorta wish we could've heard some Sound Garden or Pearl Jam, but I'll take whatever 90s bops I can get. Plus we already had Live to Rise seven years ago, so...

Edited by AyyItsMidnight on Apr 8th 2019 at 1:55:43 AM

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#100057: Apr 8th 2019 at 1:59:03 AM

There is one argument I stumbled over which I am tempted to dismiss offhand considering the source, but I still would like to hear some feedback regarding it: That the movie is racist because it taps into the stereotype of the black women always being single parents. Which…I guess, though Maria's parents are obviously happily married. My mind just never went there because a husband wouldn't have added anything to the story and would have just been an additional character to deal with, and I suspect the mind of the writers didn't think about it too. I don't think that the argument came from a honest place, but still any thoughts?

[up][up] Well, yes, because for people who are privileged, the notion of equality means that the lose something.

Edited by Swanpride on Apr 8th 2019 at 2:04:22 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#100058: Apr 8th 2019 at 2:01:34 AM

Wait that’s a stereotype?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#100059: Apr 8th 2019 at 2:02:11 AM

[up][up]... Is that even a stereotype? I mean, it might be, but personally I never heard of it.

Edited by Theokal3 on Apr 8th 2019 at 11:02:25 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#100060: Apr 8th 2019 at 2:04:02 AM

It's the stereotype that black men are deadbeat dads or something.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#100061: Apr 8th 2019 at 2:06:11 AM

I was kind of wondering about that too, because Luke Cage addressed it as a genuine problem in black society, but I can imagine people making a racist stereotype out of it, hence me asking. Just in case I missed something….

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#100062: Apr 8th 2019 at 2:09:14 AM

I can see the legitimacy in that argument. Especially, since in the comics Monica's dad was in the picture and there doesn't seem to be any explanation for what became of her father.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#100063: Apr 8th 2019 at 2:14:35 AM

I don't think that the comics are relevant there. I mean, in the comics Quill's father wasn't a planet, I am not sure if Howards Stark played such an important role and Clint is only a dad in one of the various universes. It is pretty much normal for adaptations to remove irrelevant characters and/or streamline ideas.

I would rather examine this notion independent from the comics.

Edited by Swanpride on Apr 8th 2019 at 2:18:08 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#100064: Apr 8th 2019 at 2:19:20 AM

Shit just say he passed away due to an accident or illness then.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#100065: Apr 8th 2019 at 2:19:42 AM

Here's a Vox article from 2015 about the stereotype of black men being deadbeat dads.

The data seems to indicate that while black fathers are often not married to the mothers of their children, that doesn't mean the fathers are absent from their childrens' lives at all.

The article also points out that systemic issues are a factor. The system makes it a lot harder for black men to support their kids.

Edited by M84 on Apr 8th 2019 at 5:22:21 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#100066: Apr 8th 2019 at 2:26:19 AM

I was thinking more about something along the line of having a picture with a black band in the background, but that is assuming that they don't have any plans for the dad down the line (or want to keep they options open).

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#100067: Apr 8th 2019 at 3:50:48 AM

If the movie had made a big deal (or any deal) out of Monica's father being absent, I could say it is playing into the stereotype, but with absolutely no canonical information, I don't see that there's a problem.

If anything, the absence lets Carol fit into a "second Mom" role, which carries its own kind of social implications that I am absolutely certain are intentional.

Thinking about the various parental relationships portrayed in the MCU...

  • Clint is happily married with kids, and has the most normal family life of anyone we see.
  • Tony doesn't have kids, but his dad was tough to grow up with. His on-again, off-again relationship with Pepper isn't exactly the most stable. He sees Peter as a sort of surrogate son.
  • Scott is divorced, and his ex-wife remarried. He has visitation rights with his daughter.
  • Peter Parker's parents are gone and he lives with his aunt. Tony sort of informally adopts him as a father figure.
  • Thor's parents were happily married but his father set him and Loki against each other in a deadly competition for who would succeed the throne.
  • Peter Quill's father is a god.

Add that to Maria's situation and I can't see any hard patterns that could fall into an accusation of stereotyping.

Edited by Fighteer on Apr 8th 2019 at 7:05:56 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#100068: Apr 8th 2019 at 3:54:19 AM

> Thor's parents were happily married but his father set him and Loki against each other in a deadly competition for who would succeed the throne.

Let's be fair Loki's jealousy meant he set himself against Thor,Odin was far from a perfect father figure but I don't think he can necessarily be blamed for Loki's ambitions for the throne

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#100069: Apr 8th 2019 at 4:02:22 AM

"Only one of you will be King," with the clear implication that it would be whoever proved themselves more worthy.

Yes, Loki decided on his own to interpret that as "murder your brother", but the film still presents it as kind of shitty, and even Thor agrees.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#100070: Apr 8th 2019 at 4:03:56 AM

Especially shitty since Loki never had a chance at the throne from the start. He was never intended to be a viable candidate in his own right, just motivation for Thor. Odin's plan for Loki was for him to be an eventual ambassador and peacemaker between Asgard and Jotunheim.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#100071: Apr 8th 2019 at 4:10:58 AM

I think the plan was more to put Loki maybe on the throne of Jotumnheim but he discarded this plan. Freya certainly had no issues with letting Loki reign.

My I mention again how much like the role they gave Paxton? He might be my favourite part of the Ant-man franchise, just because he is portrayed as an upstanding man who really loves his adoptive daughter and arguably is the better father to her, due to being able to give her a stable environment.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#100072: Apr 8th 2019 at 4:13:21 AM

Odin claimed he wanted Loki to be a bridge between the two realms. That doesn't quite sound like kingmaking or usurpation. Sure, Odin was a warmonger back in the day as Ragnarok revealed, but by the time of the movie he had grown weary of war.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#100073: Apr 8th 2019 at 4:13:29 AM

Its Antman,who cares?

(I sort of care anyhow)

[up][up]

Edited by Ultimatum on Apr 8th 2019 at 11:13:38 AM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#100074: Apr 8th 2019 at 4:14:57 AM

Speaking of the Thor films, given how Svartalfheim was the route Loki used without it catching Heimdall's attention, how was he able to smuggle the Frost Giants from Jotunheim to Svartalfheim, then Svartalfheim to Asgard?

Edited by HallowHawk on Apr 8th 2019 at 7:15:35 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#100075: Apr 8th 2019 at 4:17:20 AM

Loki probably had magic that conceals them even from someone who should be all seeing,or there's a blindspot somewhere

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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