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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#99901: Apr 4th 2019 at 9:27:40 AM

[up][up] The idea of Aquaman beating out Batman and Superman in terms of box office success is simply too funny to pass up. It's like seeing classic Aquaman summoning Cthulhu to remind folks why Heart Is an Awesome Power.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#99902: Apr 4th 2019 at 9:34:38 AM

I did like that Aquaman befriended Cthulhu

Edited by Bocaj on Apr 4th 2019 at 12:34:58 PM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#99903: Apr 4th 2019 at 9:39:46 AM

Honestly, I don't care about their attempts to sink a movie, any movie, mainly because I don't think that it really impacts the box office all that much. What I do care about is that the hatred they spread has consequences. Just look what happens to Leslie Jones in the wake of Ghostbusters 2016. Just look at the hatred spread regarding Brie Larson. Look the kind of hatred females who let their voice heard on Youtube get. This sh... has real life consequences, which are way more serious than the box office result which will end up in the pockets of a giant company which doesn't even pay proper taxes.

RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer
#99904: Apr 4th 2019 at 9:41:18 AM

Captain Marvel also outgrossed the first two Captain America films, the first two Iron Man films, all 3 Thor films, and the first MCU Spider-Man film.

Continue writing our story of peace.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#99905: Apr 4th 2019 at 9:43:16 AM

She's sitting pretty between Spider-Man: Homecoming and Captain America: Civil War right now. #7 highest-grossing film in the MCU.

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Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#99906: Apr 4th 2019 at 9:46:08 AM

Sure, but I wouldn't compare Captain Marvel to the first movies in the MCU, especially not the ones released prior to "The Avengers". I would compare it to the more recent ones which aren't team up movies...and there she is behind Black Panther (and I doubt that she will catch up, but who knows) but way ahead of Doctor Strange, Spider-Man homecoming or Ant-man and the Wasp.

Edited by Swanpride on Apr 4th 2019 at 9:46:41 AM

RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer
#99907: Apr 4th 2019 at 9:47:38 AM

The ones above Captain Marvel (for now) are three Avengers films (soon to be four), Captain America: Civil War, Black Panther, and Iron Man 3.

Continue writing our story of peace.
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#99908: Apr 4th 2019 at 9:48:09 AM

To be fair with the Ghostbusters remake they did have leverage to support their insults (from their point of view that is; from mine they still were assholes) and argue they were right. For Captain Marvel, them continuing to insult her after the movie was successful will just make them look like idiots and decredibilize them.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#99909: Apr 4th 2019 at 9:51:36 AM

There is no difference between what happened to Ghostbusters versus what happened to Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman. The only reason the outcome changed is because Ghostbusters is not a multi-million dollar juggernaut in a power-franchise that prints money.

Punch a WWE wrestler really hard in the face.

Do the same thing to a twelve-year-old. Same punch, same strength, same target in the face region.

And then follow up with another punch to an experienced MMA fighter.

You may notice different results. With Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel, the Deplorables bit off more than they could chew.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Apr 4th 2019 at 10:53:52 AM

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Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#99910: Apr 4th 2019 at 9:56:03 AM

I crunched the numbers regarding Ghostbusters 2016. The budget for the movie was too high. Based on what the original Ghostbusters cost and how much it made, it should have had half of the budget...this is what Tron: Legacy sunk, too. The First Planet of the Ape had a budget in the area what Ghostbusters should have had and could be considered a success. By the last one, they had nearly doubled the budget, but grossed around the same area. It didn't bomb, but it hardly made a lot of profit in the end.

Add to the high budged that terrible trailer, the bad Wo M which was related to the quality of the movie, not the gender of the main character and the fact that the fanbase wanted a continuation, not a reboot, well, it was a recipe for disaster from the get go. The Anti-SJW just claimed the win for something they didn't really cause. Who knows, the movie might have made even more than it would have otherwise. It is a pretty old franchise after all.

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#99911: Apr 4th 2019 at 10:09:13 AM

To be fair, the trailers did Captain Marvel dirty as well

Uni cat
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#99912: Apr 4th 2019 at 10:14:45 AM

The trailers were fine. Remember, their job was to introduce a new character to the general audience while not revealing any of the main twists in the movie. That is quite a task. It was unreasonable to expect that they would create the same excitement as the notion of Spider-Man in the MCU or an Endgame trailer would.

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#99913: Apr 4th 2019 at 10:53:35 AM

So i guess the thing that sparked most controversy is Brie being an outspoken feminist?

Uni cat
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#99914: Apr 4th 2019 at 11:06:26 AM

"Controversy" belongs in air quotes. It was entirely one-sided. The only people who got their panties in a bunch over Larson were the ones already committed to destroying feminism in the media.

Being an outspoken feminist certainly didn't do her any favors with the anti-SJW crowd, but they were never going to like her no matter what.

Edited by Fighteer on Apr 4th 2019 at 2:07:36 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#99915: Apr 4th 2019 at 11:07:07 AM

I still don’t understand how foot fetishism was a consideration

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#99916: Apr 4th 2019 at 11:10:37 AM

Not quite. The controversy started earlier, when Kevin Feige spoke in an interview about the difficulties to deal with an extremely powerful character, suggesting that Carol would be more powerful than any hero which came beforehand. Which is pretty much when they started to target Captain Marvel, even more so when Feige continued to suggest that she would play a key role in the future of the MCU. Brie Larson's remarks just happened during a lull in The last Jedi hate, so they were welcome clickbait for a movie they had already in focus due to its association with the biggest franchise around and Disney. The first "go woke and go broke" vids regarding Captain Marvel were started around nine months before its release already. And then there was the whole "she doesn't smile" thing.

Brie was a trigger to them because she is a feminist and pushed back against their bs, but she wasn't the reason why they obsessed over Captain Marvel so much.

[up] Honestly, this one escaped me. But it explains why someone answered me "I like her feed" when I commented how much I enjoy Carol's smirk. I was really confused where that was coming from and was wondering if that's another Anti-SJW...Oh, I think I get it yet. There was this strange idea that "SJ Ws have a double standard for criticising the the barefoot scenes in Tarantino movies, but don't call out Captain Marvel for fetishizing Carol's feed" thing. Which is naturally BS. The one barefoot fight scene she has barely show her feet at all.

Edited by Swanpride on Apr 4th 2019 at 11:18:51 AM

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#99917: Apr 4th 2019 at 11:59:10 AM

So i guess the thing that sparked most controversy is Brie being an outspoken feminist?

Don't forget that Chris Evans is also an outspoken feminist and liberal, and his movies are all in that same vein, but the MRA types mostly ignore him.

The start and end of the problem is that Brie is female. They managed to find an "issue" that sounded semi-reasonable from the outside, but only because they cherry-picked everything she said and did. They were always going to find something.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
ComicFan Since: Sep, 2016
#99918: Apr 4th 2019 at 12:00:38 PM

Avengers: Endgame’ Week Planned For ‘Jimmy Kimmel Live![1]

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#99919: Apr 4th 2019 at 12:09:28 PM

I mean even those who don't belong to the circle directly often have arguments against the movie which are..weird, to put it friendly. Like insisting that they need to depower Carol in Endgame (why? Nobody ever talks about depowering Superman) or that she didn't "earn" her power (because getting bitten by a spider makes you so much more deserving…).

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#99920: Apr 4th 2019 at 12:12:22 PM

The only way for a feminist to avoid saying something that can be reinterpreted into an attack on men by people with an axe to grind is by not saying anything at all.

And at the end of the day, that's precisely what these people want: to intimidate activists into silence with violent screams and threats every time one opens their mouth.

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Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#99921: Apr 4th 2019 at 12:24:54 PM

The only way a woman can say something without it being interpreted as an attack on men is to smile on command and never rock the boat at all. You don't even need to be specifically a feminist.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#99922: Apr 4th 2019 at 12:27:53 PM

Have you ever seen a child be told they couldn't have something and reply by screaming, "NO, I WANT IT AND I WANT IT NOW!!!" The logic is that if they scream loud enough, they will force their parent to give in to their demands. It makes sense to a five-year-old.

Tragically, it sometimes works, but I digress.

That's basically the game-plan for Deplorables. Their number one weapon is to flood the discourse with the sound of their angry screams in the hopes that having enough voices all screaming bloody Angrish at once will force everyone else to back down and give in.

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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#99923: Apr 4th 2019 at 1:22:25 PM

Plan B tends to be to keep talking longer than anyone else cares, such that someday, at some point, they’ll control the narrative.

Not because they actually have a majority opinion, but most have moved on to new topics and as such they’re presented as (and, they hope, eventually believed to be) the strongest remaining voice. It’s how a lot of Vocal Minorities remain relevant.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 4th 2019 at 1:23:56 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#99924: Apr 4th 2019 at 2:38:41 PM

Regarding Taskmaster, I honestly think the guy is a scumbag. He worked for Norman Osborne, had his own version of the Masters of Evil and did some pretty unforgivable things en masse. Marvel's insistence on having the heroes just accept him and even invite him to teams like the Secret Avengers is just ridiculous to me.

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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#99925: Apr 4th 2019 at 2:50:46 PM

That happens a lot in comic books, thanks to there being so many writers approaching the same group of characters.

Especially villains, anti heroes or character who are just assholes overall: you have a character that primarily or iconically of ambiguous morality, a villain who is friendly with the heroes, a good guy who dips into the dark side and never falls, etc and so on. And that becomes the well known standard for the character.

But then you have writers who then approach those characters and go “nah, forget all that nice guy stuff, I could make better use of this character is they were eviller,” or doesn’t see the nuances at all and simply uses them in a more straightforward way, or in some pretty off cases outright goes “wouldn’t it be shocking if this previously amiable character revealed themselves to be Evil All Along?” And hen you have them doing worse actions that they’re stuck with over all.

This is especially true for a character like Taskmaster, who started off eviller than he eventually became iirc.

Sometimes the character is inexorably changed by these moments and can never be used in the old way again. Sometimes writers choose not to worry about it and keep them in the way that works best regardless. Sometimes they’re forced to call Canon Discontinuity.

But overall, you get both a writing base and a fan base hat becomes desensitized to “rootable” villains doing nasty stuff here and there, because of Depending on the Writer. Just look at Sandman.


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