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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#99676: Mar 31st 2019 at 6:19:51 PM

[up][up]Then watch it before you form an opinion on it. What are you doing here?

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#99677: Mar 31st 2019 at 6:24:55 PM

Because the point is not that CM is or isn't a good film, but that a film can have a good, relevant theme and narrative and still be merely an okay, or even bad, film. These positions are not mutually exclusive.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#99678: Mar 31st 2019 at 6:32:25 PM

We already know a movie can have good themes but poor execution. We've all seen the Star Wars prequels. There isn't really a need to make everyone aware of that.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Mar 31st 2019 at 6:32:46 AM

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#99679: Mar 31st 2019 at 6:37:53 PM

I can definitely see how, compared to the brilliant visual worldbuilding seen in Guardians of the Galaxy, Black Panther, and Thor: Ragnarok, the depiction of the Kree and the Skrulls would seem pretty bland and generic. It's the Earth based sequences that shine, not the outer space or alien world based stuff.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#99680: Mar 31st 2019 at 6:41:37 PM

sigh I wasn't preaching that, I was arguing about this:

A thing which kind of frustrates me is that Brie Larson ended up to be right. The narrative out there is that Captain Marvel is an okay movie and a nice pop corn flick. It seems that the majority of the reviewers totally miss the bigger message in the movie. A few female ones got it, but since they aren't dominating the conversation…

Look, far from me to deny that female voices have less space on anything, let alone film criticism, but saying that the reason people didn't like the movie is simply because they didn't "get" the message it was trying to promote feels disingenuous.

I'm not saying anyone has to agree with me on this, or for that matter anything else, but I take offence with people trying to put words in my mouth.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#99681: Mar 31st 2019 at 7:00:25 PM

I will said black panther shine because is a sort of origin story, not of tchalla but wakanda itself and it feel.....there, is break taking in many ways, compare to that the srkulls and kree are just two form of alien assholes.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#99682: Mar 31st 2019 at 7:09:02 PM

[up][up]Still, you were arguing about the quality of the movie when you haven't seen it.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#99683: Mar 31st 2019 at 7:13:36 PM

They weren't really arguing about the quality of the movie, though; they were arguing about the quality of the arguing about the movie. Two very different things.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#99684: Mar 31st 2019 at 7:13:42 PM

Y'know what? Never mind. Let's talk about something else.

Who's in favor of Carol getting the full mohawk? Not just the helmet mohawk, but the full haircut treatment? I vote yes.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#99685: Mar 31st 2019 at 7:16:01 PM

Look, far from me to deny that female voices have less space on anything, let alone film criticism, but saying that the reason people didn't like the movie is simply because they didn't "get" the message it was trying to promote feels disingenuous.
It's not that some reviewers didn't "get" the film; it's that some male reviewers didn't have the same context as female reviewers did. I've heard a lot of people online criticize Yon-Rogg telling Carol to "control her emotions" when she didn't appear emotional, not realizing that that was the point, that women have been told over and over again that they are "too emotional." A lot of reviews took things entirely at face value, rather than seeing the thematic context.

Compare this review (which appears as if the reviewer barely even saw the film) to, say, this review.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#99686: Mar 31st 2019 at 7:27:34 PM

I am definitely in favor of Carol getting her comics version haircut.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#99687: Mar 31st 2019 at 7:36:05 PM

[up][up] I will say that the gulf between male and female reviewers of this movie was ... jarring. Especially since I saw all the feminist messages in it, and the fact that many did not (or just plain dismissed them) is extremely telling. When Yon-Rogg pulled the "control your emotions" gambit at the end, I knew exactly what the film was saying.

And she has emotional depth. She's not a woman who is constantly crying on screen, screaming in terror so men can rescue her, or falling dizzily in love with a hunky dude, so maybe people were expecting that? I really don't know. But she clearly changes over the course of the film, expresses lots of emotions, and comes out of it a stronger person. What more do they want?

Edited by Fighteer on Apr 1st 2019 at 6:40:00 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#99688: Mar 31st 2019 at 7:51:06 PM

I'm a dude, and I got all the feminist themes in Captain Marvel. A lot of people just don't want to spend the effort to learn more and understand.

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#99689: Mar 31st 2019 at 7:56:50 PM

I'm pretty sure the reason they can't see the point of Yon-Rogg telling Carol to control her emotions despite her being perfectly calm is because they think he's right. They see nothing wrong in a male officer telling a woman to control her emotions and thus take it at face value that Carol is supposed to have emotional problems and that it's the movie's fault for not showing it.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#99690: Mar 31st 2019 at 8:01:33 PM

I wish gifs functioned because I’d be posting that one of the guy holding the solo cup looking down and away going o.O

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#99691: Mar 31st 2019 at 8:04:38 PM

Again, that is something that happens to women pretty much every day, through out history. This is not a new thing, and you'd be blind to not realise it.

Edited by Nightwire on Mar 31st 2019 at 8:05:30 AM

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#99692: Mar 31st 2019 at 8:11:52 PM

Um, that's not in question? I know it happens to woman almost everyday. I'm just saying they know it too but don't see anything wrong with it because they're chauvinistic asshole that think women need a man to keep them in line.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#99693: Mar 31st 2019 at 8:45:29 PM

Well, the "control your emotions" bit has two different contexts going on at once. There's the context of a man criticizing a woman for being too emotional, but there's also the context of a martial arts sparring session where the mentor criticizes the pupil for being too emotional. In movies, any advice the mentor gives the pupil in such a situation is generally meant to set up what the pupil will struggle with going forward, and finally mastering their mentor's lesson is what lets them win the final showdown (see: just about any interaction Dr. Strange had with the Ancient One).

Of course, the reveal that said mentor is actually a bad guy changes the context considerably.

Edited by RavenWilder on Mar 31st 2019 at 8:46:39 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#99694: Mar 31st 2019 at 8:50:09 PM

[up] "It hasn't beat Wonder Woman domestically".

No kidding, that is the new goal post they have set for Captain Marvel to pass.

Of course it is. They're still trying to pit Wonder Woman fans and Captain Marvel fans against each other.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#99695: Mar 31st 2019 at 8:57:18 PM

And currently Captain Marvel is within $60 million of Wonder Woman's domestic gross. Given CM is only on its third weekend, matching or passing WW domestically seems very doable.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#99697: Mar 31st 2019 at 9:22:46 PM

Is that from a movie novelization?

My god, do they still do movie novelizations?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#99698: Mar 31st 2019 at 9:29:46 PM

[up] They do, although Marvel generally likes doing prequel novels instead of novelizations these days. However, this is from Avengers: Infinity War: Destiny Arrives by Liza Palmer (who has written a bunch of YA novels, as well as one about Carol Danvers in the Air Force).

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#99700: Mar 31st 2019 at 9:39:56 PM

You know what's funny about the control your emotions thing (and I mentioned in one of my posts, possibly my first about the movie)?

When Carol blasts Yon Rogg, not only does she refute his claims, but she also takes his advice in a twisted way, but not letting her emotions guide her and taking his bait.

She wins, not just because she's the Goddamned Captain Marvel, but because she keeps her head exactly like he'd been trying to teach (though for very different reasons).

One Strip! One Strip!

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